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black friday,stampede,lack of basic human decency Wal-Mart employee trampled to death
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Sure, it isn't her fault that others were stampeding, but they were crammed into that area like that well before opening. Common sense would seem to dictate that if you are pregnant then it probably isn't a good idea to pack yourself into a crowd of people waiting to push through a very narrow opening.
Edit: Reports of the miscarriage are false apparently. Still, it is worth noting that a pregnant lady at some point looked at this crowd of several thousand people (which was unruly even before the doors opened) and thought to herself "yea, that looks like a perfectly safe place to take my unborn child". The AP reports that she was 8 months pregnant. Go ahead and tell me that was a good idea with a straight face.
Wtf was a pregnant woman doing in a situation like that to begin with?
WTF? A situation like this?? What do think she expected? She expected to shop! She didn't think about being killed! Who expects danger in going to a Walmart? Who expects civilized people to act like animals? The video should be made public so every god damned one of those people can be charged with involuntary manslaughter for those deaths.
Don't dare blame a victim for this.
Walmart should close that store for good. What a shameful blight this happening here.
For what it's worth, I read on a different news site that doctors believe the unborn baby is okay.
Secondly(as a professional): As a former private security officer I can say that no matter the amount of security you have, if that security has no teeth then they are as useless as a condom with a holes in it.
(A gut response)
Holy Calamity, its a store, this vanity is astounding. This is evolution in action, with a little help from society.
Save your fucking money for a rainy day.
Two people where shot at a toys r us.
This is what America has become, an Idiocracy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316
And when I tell people I don't like large groups, they look at me like I'm odd.
Complain all you want about wars or terrorism, this shows the fallacy of human civilization as much or more in my opinion.
My guess is WalMart will not be held liable for this, as, for all intents and purposes, this is the "price of capitalism."
Now if they installed an American Gladiator-type of obstacle course at the front entrance, that'd be a different story.
[AP coverage & cell phone footage]
I'm not saying this is something where more regulation would've prevented the problem, I'm mostly just saying this whole concept of greed being a good thing has to explain to me why something like this happening was good, or somehow not a product of greed.
Personally, I don't know how we're supposed to expect people to behave when there are many, many voices chanting "be selfish" in ways both subtle and gross, at every level of society.
After all, anything else would be Socialism, or Marxist, or some other ooga-booga scary name for any concept that encourages the slightest bit of self-sacrifice.
welcome to the new Obama-Nation, you asked for it, you got it
lol, i knew it'd be from this idiot before i ever saw who posted it. The guy isnt even in office yet, you've had a double term leading upto it, and you still blame this on him ? - thats being a tool to a whole new level.
Did you just turn this tragedy into an anti-capitalism political talking point? I am officially amazed.
Not to mention you'd have to be idiotic beyond proportions to camp it out in the first place. Have these people not heard of preordering or online sales?
Can you believe it?? She could have saved a lot of money.
There were white people there, right?
If someone goes down in that kind of situation either the people around them IMMEDIATELY try to stop and help. Once you're on the floor, all you can do is curl up, protect your head and hope. Don't ever go down in a crowd like that. Ever. Bending over, kneeling and trying to get someone up from the floor is next to suicide. Unless you have a couple of burly friends that can try to create a human cordon in front of that spot.
I'm not blaming the victims, but I would blame the store for having no secruity present. Setting up a system of letting only limited abouts of people in at a time (say 12-20) keeps crowd inside the store under control and a stampede won't happen. But you would have to deal with the crushing at the perimeter.
But then again, that would assume that security knows what it's doing. And after seeing how airport security screened me in SF International in febuary of 2002, I wouldn't want to bet money on that. (I was on the special ZZZ 'screen until his ass explodes' list for some reason, and noone, not a single person checked my jacket after I laid it aside at the start of the search... go figure)
If you walk down dark alleys waving clips of cash over your head it doesn't make you guilty when you get mugged, but it also doesn't mean you couldn't have kept yourself out of that situation in the first place.
That applies mostly to the customers rather than the employee. He wasn't really there by choice.
I can't remember the last time a Black Friday came and went without this happening, though usually without any deaths, just injuries. While I certainly don't blame the victims, that doesn't mean it's not an obviously dangerous situation to anyone with the slightest bit of awareness.
If you walk down dark alleys waving clips of cash over your head it doesn't make you guilty when you get mugged, but it also doesn't mean you couldn't have kept yourself out of that situation in the first place.
That applies mostly to the customers rather than the employee. He wasn't really there by choice.
Yea, I feel bad for the old guy.
As far as the customers in that crowd, anyone going into that expecting it to be calm and orderly was delusional. Deaths and serious injury are rare in these cases, but stampedes and selfish behavior is extremely common. If I saw that I'd turn around and go home. There's no point risking injury to myself or my family just to save a little money on stuff I can live without to begin with.
This is so racist. Why do they show pictures and video all the black people, as if they were the ones who stampeded? Why didn't they show the crowds of crazy WHITE people? Damn media.
There were white people there, right?
A few. Did you see the link with the pictures of the stampede? I think this is a predominately black community. Racism was not a factor in the media's coverage of the event. Stop seeing racist conspiracies where there are none. The fact that most of these people are black is utterly irrelevent.
I don't hope for shit, I start fighting and bringing more people down with me.
At that point its fight or flight in this case fight or die.
>> ^NetRunner:
Did you just turn this tragedy into an anti-capitalism political talking point? I am officially amazed.
Not anti-capitalism, but anti-rampant consumerism.
Isn't the fact that it was over a sale part of what makes this particularly tragic?
Since I seem to be accumulating a healthy number of downvotes on my original comment, clearly people disagree with my premise that this shows that greed is not an absolute good. For most people, that's not a revelation, nor offensive, but I've spotted at least 3 at this time who reacted negatively to the assertion.
No one's risen to my challenge to explain either why this was good, or why greed wasn't the cause.
Let me try to make it less confrontational. I'm not saying capitalism is evil -- I'm saying parts of it lead to evil behavior, and I'd love to work together to try to figure out what's wrong and correct it.
I don't think Republican-style conservatives are the cause, but I think their rhetoric pushes things in the wrong direction.
I'd say this incident is mostly a dangerous mix of nihilism, competition, and people's natural tendency in a group to think someone else will handle things like a salesperson lying on the floor.
Still, consumerism built the pressure-cooker that helped make this possible, and I'd love to come up with a solution, because I don't want the free market to go away, I just wish it were less intense at the consumer level somehow, without losing the freedom that makes it so useful in the first place.
Long story short, a tragedy that could have been easily prevented, on all accounts, had people THOUGHT.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316
OMG I just read that the Walmart reopened THE SAME DAY. It's a crime scene!
The store manager probably should have kept it closed out of respect for the deceased employee, but generally crime scenes are only kept restricted when there is additional evidence to be gathered.
I wonder how much pressure the manager was under from his managers to get those "Black Friday profits".
It's not Walmart's fault there was no security either. Those people are at fault... bunch of animals.
Walmart should close that store for good. What a shameful blight this happening here.
I do think that Walmart (and any store) has an obligation to do certain things to protect the safety of their shoppers and employees.
There are several things that could have been done to prevent this.
1) This is nothing new, so there should have been a police presence. (police, not security, security should be there as well though.)
2) Limit the number of people going in at one time. 10-20 at most. Inform them all that anyone caught running will not be wrung up and will be asked to leave. Those refusing will be arrested for tresspassing (hence the police).
3) Ticket system for high demand/low inventory items. Many stores have been doing this and it helps on the stampedes, because everyone knows what they are able to get beforehand.
4) One door open only and one line. Anyone in the crowd either unruly or not in line, is asked to leave or risk arrest.
Some stores are already doing these things in my area and it has helped.
The reality is that in general people can be animals. Individuals can be stand up, but in crowds you get a mob mentality.
Well, that just made it to the top of my "Ways I Don't Want to Die" list.
>> ^blankfist:
>> ^NetRunner:
Did you just turn this tragedy into an anti-capitalism political talking point? I am officially amazed.
Wtf was a pregnant woman doing in a situation like that to begin with?
Exactly. Even if there was no trampling, you don't expose your 8 month pregnant self to the long lines, overcrowding, and pushing and shoving of a "normal" black friday.
>> ^swampgirl:
Don't dare blame a victim for this.
Just because she miscarried doesn't mean she's not stupid.
The original went down due to a "terms of use violation." I fixed it with CNN coverage of the same event with some clearer details.
I swear the average IQ in our local Wal-Mart is at least 25% lower than other typical big stores here in Wasilla. Personally, I think it makes for the best people watching.
Do you take your own binoculars, or do you try out the ones on sale?