Scientology Rep. Can't Handle the Heat On Xenu, Storms Out
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Stumble ThisABC's Nightline ran a special on Scientology this weekend. It was typically strange and disconcerting, but nothing necessarily new. Except: What could provoke their spokesman to storm off the set of an interview? We get to learn. Paging Lord Xenu.
Martin Bashir was grilling Scientology spokesthing Tommy Davis regarding Xenu, the intergalactic god who did or did not come to Earth 75 million years ago to bury his people in volcanoes. Bashir asks Davis a very simple question: Do you guys believe in this crazy shit? Is Xenu and his people-pod volcano plot part of your religion? Etc. Watch what Davis does, starting at about 2:45 for context, but 3:40 if you just want to see him freak out and stomp off.
Martin Bashir was grilling Scientology spokesthing Tommy Davis regarding Xenu, the intergalactic god who did or did not come to Earth 75 million years ago to bury his people in volcanoes. Bashir asks Davis a very simple question: Do you guys believe in this crazy shit? Is Xenu and his people-pod volcano plot part of your religion? Etc. Watch what Davis does, starting at about 2:45 for context, but 3:40 if you just want to see him freak out and stomp off.
George Lucas: (removes his microphone and storms out)
He never says that these topics are untrue, just that Scientologists find it offensive to talk about them. So in that sense at least, he never purgers himself before mighty 'El Ron'.
The Rum?
Finding Scientology to be more absurd than your personal religion just makes you a hypocrite and an idiot.
I don't know why people have such a problem with Scientologists, their beliefs are no more ridiculous than those of Mormons, Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc., ad nauseum.
Finding Scientology to be more absurd than your personal religion just makes you a hypocrite and an idiot.
It's not the absurdity, but the deliberate malice of scientology. The basic tenate of most every other major religion in some way amounts to treating your fellow man by the golden rule. Scientology has nearly the exact opposite tact and actively encourages that any opposition be attacked and destroyed by absolutely any and all means necessary to do so. Other major religions also actively work to distribute their scriptures and teachings for free. Scientology again takes the exact opposite approach and actively uses every law available to stop the distribution of their religious materials and beliefs. Those aren't just banal differences, they are fundamental.
... All jokes aside, my characterization of the Christian story is an example of how you can take a religious belief and make it hyperbole by stating it in a non-traditional way. So if we take that as a model for a reason why this Scientology representative might be offended by the mis-characterization of the Church's deepest beliefs, it would still beg the question as to why he storms off instead of just correcting the reporter's way of putting things.
Are they embarrassed by their own belief? Hard to say...
Let's take it at face-value for a moment. Let's say that the scientologists only "get to know" this stuff after they've been through the previous "levels" or whatever because it is designed to make them understand fundamentals before revealing something which is hard to believe without proof. They show you all this other stuff, which potentially makes your life better and "works" and then, only then, do they tell you about the deep secret which involves something other-worldly...
I still just don't get why they would get offended if asked about it. Look at the Raelians, who follow a total nutjob who is absolutely convinced of a lot of silly stuff just as kooky as the allegations of what the scientologist believe and they have no problems chatting about it. Neither do Mormons, or Christians, or whatever.
So, what's the deal? If you are asked about something and it is wrong, wouldn't you just say "no actually, we don't believe in that." It kind of reminds me of asking someone if they are a virgin and them getting all pissed off and storming off; chances are they probably are a virgin. I'm just surprised that they haven't found a better reaction to this yet. You'd think with all the money, legal advisers, and resources someone in their organization would have come up with a more efficient way to deal with these questions.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, Scientology is no different than any other religion. Some guy came up with some story about how the universe was formed and now they want people's money and attention. Does scientology hurt people? I'm sure it hurts some... so did Christianity during the inquisition. Jehova's witnesses prevent blood transfusions and Christian Scientists forego medical attention altogether... are they hurting people?
Finally, I'll say that Scientology will likely catch on that this type of reaction is not good press and come up with a more effective way of dealing with these problematic aspects of their "faith." We need to take a step back and realize that they are the perfect metaphor for religion in general. If you have a problem with scientology, you need to realize that you have a problem with ALL religion.
"Do you believe that there was an intergalactic emperor named Darth Vader who fathered twins who would later kiss, even though you knew they were related?"
George Lucas: (removes his microphone and storms out)
LOL thinker!! I quite enjoyed that.
In the past, the Scientology celebrity center had a nice african women as a public spokesperson. She would deny all the claims about Xenu whenever she was asked about it. But someone eventually figured out that she was not even at the training level of operating thetan. You only learn about Xenu at operating thetan level 3. So sometimes even their public speakers don't really know anything about the church.
In Tommy Davis's case, I'm pretty sure he knows about Xenu. According to wikipedia, he's both denied it in the past, and also referenced Xenu's existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Davis
"Do you believe that there was an intergalactic emperor named Darth Vader who fathered twins who would later kiss, even though you knew they were related?"
George Lucas: (removes his microphone and storms out)
This is awesome.
So, what's the deal? If you are asked about something and it is wrong, wouldn't you just say "no actually, we don't believe in that."
The problem is the scam requires that fully brainwashed recruits believe the xenu story, so it can't be publicly denied. Neither can it be publicly admitted though, or else nobody would sign up in the first place. As a result, the cult's best response is to act indignant and refuse to answer.
And yes, Xenu is part of Scientology's doctrine as one of the tools they use to attack anyone talking about Xenu is that the copyright to the papers belong to the 'church' and distributing it without their approval is a violation of copyright. Many websites have been required to remove references to the documents as a result. It's notably the only time that Slashdot.org has ever successfully been forced to take down anything because of a legal suit.
Have fun with your Toxicity.
I was told that all your daily nutritional needs should be taken from food sources only, and you should always stay away from supplements.
What do you know! Another Tax Exempt religion pushing its Pseudoscience around. Proof of their fraudulent behavior and thus their tax exemption should be removed.
Christianity could learn a lot from Scientology. They don't even have levels! I'd imagine it simplifies the holier than thou arguments if you can point to a certificate.
Go the other way and convert RPG's into religions. Then everybody tired of leveling up their virtual avatars can do it in real life instead.
It violates his beliefs to talk publicly about his beliefs. What?
Rule #1: You don't talk about
Fight ClubXenu.Rule #2: You don't talk about
Fight ClubXenu!>> ^Shpydir:
Christianity could learn a lot from Scientology. They don't even have levels! I'd imagine it simplifies the holier than thou arguments if you can point to a certificate.
Go the other way and convert RPG's into religions. Then everybody tired of leveling up their virtual avatars can do it in real life instead.
I'm sure that's already been done!
Almost: http://www.jedichurch.org/
Skip to 1:00 for the actual fight
Hey at least the origin of homosapiens in the eyes of Scientology goes back 75 million years. Christianity would have me believe humans originated 4,000 years ago.
Actually the genus "homo" has only been around for 2.5 million years, with "modern" man "homo sapiens sapiens" existing for about 200,000 years.
They're just as wrong, only in the other direction.
Don't talk to them about the weird stuff. Most Scientologists don't know about it and are trained in the idea that finding out about it too soon will kill them. So just leave that entirely alone. It may freak you out and you may want to share it, but they will think it is a personal attack.
So, what's the deal? If you are asked about something and it is wrong, wouldn't you just say "no actually, we don't believe in that."
That's easy--the real answer would make them seem silly. This indignant response is carefully crafted PR management.
Scientology is no different than any other religion.
It's a tough question. Every religion has some self-defense mechanisms against detractors. Every religion has some rituals that seem crafted to trick weak-minded people into belief. I would call Scientology a religion that has had an artifically long life through its focus on self-defense mechanisms and legal protections. Without its legal successes, its silly beliefs and malicious practices of punishment, exclusion, and coercion would have been public knowledge years ago.
You say one thing wrong - Just saying his name (his other name i mean) and he will haunt your dreams man...
YOUR DREAMS!!!
You ever tried to run from a 10-story tall, great old one, evil elder god in your dreams!?!? good luck with that!
I'd walk out too!
"Do you believe that there was an intergalactic emperor named Darth Vader who fathered twins who would later kiss, even though you knew they were related?"
George Lucas: (removes his microphone and storms out)
Just a note from the nerd side: Darth Vader never became the emperor. Even after the emperor zapped him (because he forgot to use force choke and force push, which could easily archive the same thing at a distance), he was still just a smoking Sith.
Just a note from the nerd side: Darth Vader never became the emperor. Even after the emperor zapped him (because he forgot to use force choke and force push, which could easily archive the same thing at a distance), he was still just a smoking Sith.
thinker247: (removes my microphone and storms out)
Turns out reading the Xenu story without authorization causes pneumonia! BEWARE!!!!
Yeah, don't ask a Mormon about their magic underpants either. Ask me how I know :-/
How did you come to know this?