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rachel,maddow,barack,obama,guantanamo,bush,indefinite,detention Rachel Maddow - Obama Advocates Indefinite Detention?

Rachel Maddow - Obama Advocates Indefinite Detention?

posted by demon_ix 6 months 2 weeks ago • 1902 views
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Wasn't this his strongest campaign pledge?

I guess the way to tell if a politician is lying, really is simply watching if his lips are moving...

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I smell a real revolution brewing.


written by charliem  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!


written by enoch  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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*promote black asshole.


written by gwiz665  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Saturday, May 23rd, 2009 2:40pm PDT - promote requested by gwiz665.


written by siftbot  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Don't blame me, I voted for the Republican the Democrats ran against this guy.


written by quantumushroom  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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We should totally blame quantumushroom. I mean, he's the only Obama supporter on the sift, when you think about it...


written by gwiz665  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Any government that would imprison someone for 10 years without a trial is digging its own grave in terms of blowback. Obama is almost as bad as the republicans. He's equivocating too much about unlawful detention.


written by jwray  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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*news
*law


written by NetRunner  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Adding video to channels (Law, News) - requested by NetRunner.


written by siftbot  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Well we know he is lying, the question is when, and to whom.

I hope that he is lying to congress, taking this "we need a legal framework" line in order to implicate them in making decisions. At the moment congress is happy to say "no", but by forcing them to set a legal framework he can put himself back in the position of shutting them down, instead of the other way around.


written by dgandhi  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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I love how the "liberal media" is able to critique their "own" party. Doesn't help them win elections though.


written by cybrbeast  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Fuck you, Mr. President.


written by direpickle  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Boy, I'm sure glad I didn't vote for that guy, because I'd sure be feeling like a total asshat right now if I did.


written by blankfist  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Who did you vote for, blanky? McCain didn't even entertain the idea of doing it, and he's the only other guy that had a chance of winning. With Obama there was at least a shot that he'd be true to his word.

You vote the best as you can, and then you make a big fuss when the guy in power doesn't do what you want. That's every American's responsibility.

Write letters, people. It's Congress (even/especially the Dems in congress) that this crap is meant to appease.


written by direpickle  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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I would just like to take this moment to remind everyone that they really should have voted for Ron Paul...

>_>


written by soulmonarch  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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I voted for Ron Paul during the primaries and Bob Barr during the main election.


written by blankfist  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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>.>


written by Drax  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Shame, shame, shame. Even so, he remains the better choice between himself and McCain, but better than bad isn't inherently great. America had a great choice in Ron Paul, and they blew it.


written by Xax  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Change we can believe in.


written by jake  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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This is why I don't vote


written by Darkhand  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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yeah, indefinite detention for detainees that the Bush administration captured. This only applies to current prisoners.


written by turboj0e  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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How to shut down GITMO in 3 easy steps

1) send prisoners back to countries in which they were captured (i.e. not cuba), even if they were captured in the US.
2) have those countries prosecute based on laws in those countries. If guilty, likely death penalty, if not - it's those countries who let the people go.
3) spend time and money keeping track of anyone released, to see if they lead to other terrorist cells.

The point of saying "I will close Guantanamo Bay", Mr. President, was that it showed that you think the Constitution is important. More important than the potential crimes of future terrorists against Americans. You are not Jack Bauer, Mr. President, because he is a fictional character.

Richard Clark was exactly right about the war on terror - it's not just a war on the ground, it's a war of ideas. And we cannot win the war on terror without winning over the hearts and minds of muslim world. Every action we take, as a nation, that sends the message of "we can do whatever we want" or "we are better than you" gets immediately turned into terrorist propaganda that recruits more people and expands their funding base. We are NOT safer after invading Iraq. We are NOT safer for holding people indefinitely without trial.

And Obama doesn't want to prosecute previous administration because it's dangerous politically. Would also be expensive due to the appeals process, and would just be divisive among left and right wing people/states. Jesse Ventura would prosecute, because he doesn't care about getting reelected.


written by spawnflagger  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Still 1000x better than the last guy.


written by KnivesOut  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Only slightly surprised, especially in light of his recent back-pedaling. Glad I voted Green.


written by Unaccommodated  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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Unlike every other news source she runs the part where he discusses that he wants to do this legitimately. To me that sounds like he wants to keep some of them as prisoners of war, a perfectly legal way to detain them until the war ends. Detaining prisoners of war in war time is nothing new and certainly legal. If he does this to people who were simply 'picked up' and who could not be connected to direct conflict, that is where the legality comes into question.

Come on people, this guy spent time as a constitutional professor. He's not going to pull the same tricks as the last one. Lets way to see how this works out, and how he proposes to detain them within constitutional law before telling him 'fuck you.' ah?

Her whole 'minority report' fear mongering is not typical of her. Tisk tisk Rachel Maddow.


written by Xaielao  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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My guess is that he's trying to get a lot of stuff moving that requires bipartisan support, and knows that immediately going after members of the last administration would further polarize and galvanize the two parties. Meanwhile, Cheney is incriminating himself in the media more and more, so what's the harm of letting tricky Dick run his mouth for a while.

To me, this business about "indefinite detention" only means that they won't put hard dead-lines on releasing detainees. They've already said that they will be giving each individual a fair hearing, but I'm sure they just don't know how long that would take.

It's great how quick you guys are to say "Fuck you, Obama" when he's only been in office for 6 months. Yeah, he hasn't solved all the world's problems yet. What a despicable man!


written by KnivesOut  | 6 months 2 weeks ago | CH
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FYI, here is the transcript of that portion of Obama's speech:

I want to be honest: this is the toughest issue we will face. We are going to exhaust every avenue that we have to prosecute those at Guantanamo who pose a danger to our country. But even when this process is complete, there may be a number of people who cannot be prosecuted for past crimes, but who nonetheless pose a threat to the security of the United States. Examples of that threat include people who have received extensive explosives training at al Qaeda training camps, commanded Taliban troops in battle, expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden, or otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans. These are people who, in effect, remain at war with the United States.

As I said, I am not going to release individuals who endanger the American people. Al Qaeda terrorists and their affiliates are at war with the United States, and those that we capture - like other prisoners of war - must be prevented from attacking us again. However, we must recognize that these detention policies cannot be unbounded. That is why my Administration has begun to reshape these standards to ensure they are in line with the rule of law. We must have clear, defensible and lawful standards for those who fall in this category. We must have fair procedures so that we don't make mistakes. We must have a thorough process of periodic review, so that any prolonged detention is carefully evaluated and justified.

I know that creating such a system poses unique challenges. Other countries have grappled with this question, and so must we. But I want to be very clear that our goal is to construct a legitimate legal framework for Guantanamo detainees - not to avoid one. In our constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. And so going forward, my Administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution.

Not quite what Rachel made it out to be.

I don't blame her for being attentive on this issue -- I sure as hell am. I also don't blame her for using her show to try to build political pressure for Obama to Do The Right ThingTM, but I don't see any reason to think from this speech that he's decided to do something bad, or even left the door open to do something bad.

What I heard was what he's always said: we don't have to choose between our values and our safety.

He's just pointing out, in a very, very delicate way, that Guantanamo as is operates entirely outside of the law, but that it would be irresponsible to release the people we can't try because Bush ignored due process and the Geneva conventions and made it impossible to build a legitimate legal case for holding some of these people.

I think the idea is to come up with a way to charge them for "conspiracy to commit terror attacks" that passes muster, so that their detention ceases to be unlawful and indefinite. As Xaielao said, there is some precedent for this with Prisoners of War, though most of the law written about that assumes there's a state with a government to deal with in some clear way about the release, so we'd need a new legal framework for dealing with non-state actors...


written by NetRunner  | 6 months 1 week ago | CH
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