Obama allows sacking of decorated 18 year fighter pilot
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Stumble ThisI can't help but feel that "don't ask don't tell" will be looked back on as the same kind of narrow-minded thinking that the US military fell back on to resist full racial integration.
Pick your battles Obama - but this is a good one to pick.
Pick your battles Obama - but this is a good one to pick.
*politics
But on the other hand, I can't help but think "Why bother?". If the armed services are going to throw you out over something as ridiculous as sexual orientation, why the fuck do you want to remain? Why serve a country that is so affronted by WHO YOU ARE that they don't even want you to risk your life to defend them?
I understand the desire to serve ones country, but I just can't help thinking that if someone denies your help they're the ones who are losing out. Find other ways to serve, you don't need to risk your life for people that put their flawed morality ahead of everything else.
Uniform code of military justice.
Surprised?
Put it this way, remember that video a few weeks ago with the crazy evangelical soldiers looking for loopholes to hand out bibles in Afghanistan (or wherever)? Clearly the military is allowing all sorts of crazy shit to go on based on a certain agenda which mashes up nicely with an anti-gay agenda. I'm pretty sure that if Obama were to decide to go for this, the right wing would take it as yet another issue to cause a bullshit morality "values" shitstorm.
I say fix the economy first, then deal with this stuff.
Finally, blaming Obama for don't ask don't tell... really inventive.
Barack Obama is full of it.
Surprised?
Yes. I was an optimist.
To HollywoodBob, I think it's more complicated as to why people choose to serve in the military. As The LtCol here pointed out, for many it is a long-standing family tradition. The military is a completely different way of life and some people are made for it and cannot find true fulfillment elsewhere. It's a shame we are not allowing those people to do what is best for them and best for all of us.
That's my point: Don't ask Don't Tell ISN'T an Obama policy. Why should he be blamed for it? Is he magically supposed to right every wrong in the US the second he becomes president?
This instance highlights the needs for a change in the military, but saying that it is Obama's fault is just bullshit.
My point is that of the things which are priorities right now, the religious right's stranglehold on the military is not at the top of the list.
Essentially the government is saying to this man: "Thanks for nearly two decades of dedicated service, but we're going to shitcan you and withhold the retirement benefits you earned, because we just found out you're gay."
If you can explain to me how this is even vaguely acceptable in a way that doesn't prove you're a bigoted apologist, you get a cookie.
This really is a no brainer for Obama, though.. he'll get to it whens theres enough lubrication and momentum that he can fully insert ideas without causing pain to republicans and bigots.
Obama knows this guy's sexuality isn't a problem, and ultimately, justice will prevail.. but there are other things going on right now that aren't so certain.
I really don't envy trying to triage the worlds problems.
Read this:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/14/obama.gays.military/
Here's the key point from the article:
" During the presidential campaign, Obama said he would work to end the policy, but because it is dictated by federal law, he can not end it unilaterally.
Congress must pass legislation overturning the policy, which was put into place at the beginning of the Clinton administration. Former President Bill Clinton tried to overturn the "don't ask, don't tell" policy when he took office in 1993, but he was strenuously opposed by the military leadership."
This is going to be a hell of a fight and Obama just can't wave a magic wand and make it happen. He's going to have to contend with Congress and the military leadership, both of which are full of jackasses I'm sure. Just like the gay marriage issue, homosexuality carries stigmas which are currently ACCEPTED by a majority and therefore it takes a lot to deal with them and protect the minority which they affect. Just like proposition 8 in CA, when put to a vote, these fail right now because you have old, bigoted fucks still in positions of power.
So calm the fuck down with placing blame and realize that this is going to take time. It is VERY sad to see someone who is just being discriminated against, but this is NOT a quick fix and I don't believe Obama has the authority to just overturn the military's decision.
I suppose he could order the military to stop following federal law, but I can't see that helping him much. Does he even have the power to do that?
ponceleon, Don't make excuses for Obama or anybody for that matter. Just bitch when he makes a poor decision and applaud him when he makes a good one. Allowing him to overlook certain things just to avoid conflict makes him just as responsible. He's the fucking president, it's time for him to stop playing politics and being the fucking president.
I agree with that in large part. However, it's not as if he's made a change to his stance, and it's not like "playing politics" ends the second he's sworn in. On the contrary, that's when it really begins.
Obama is still on the right side of the issue, and he's still very good at playing politics.
The only decision we have from Obama so far is not putting this issue front and center in the early days of his Presidency.
Given the economy, two wars, Guantanamo, the whole torture "issue", and more long-term concerns like health care, environment, and education, I don't blame him for letting this issue languish.
What Rachel is doing is exactly what needs to be done; try to build up outside pressure to change that political calculation. Try to raise awareness of what we lose by letting it slip through the cracks, and try to change the political dynamic so repealing DADT seems more important to people.
I think Don't Ask Don't Tell should be repealed, but I think pushing it right now would be a mistake -- it would fail, and likely be a drag on the other things he's trying to do.
Originally was linked to this post, but went for an embed and link to some other interesting stuff. I'm just glad I could play a small role in getting this issue the attention it deserves.
He's allowing it to happen by not following through on his stated intention.
Did you read the CNN article I posted a few posts above?
Obama can't unilaterally overturn don't ask don't tell. Obama can't overturn the military's decision on this officer. Yes, it is one of the things he wants to do, but to claim inaction because of this case, which by the way starter BEFORE he was elected is kind of bogus.
Again, I'm not an Obama "apologist" he'll be judged as any other president, but right now people are basically blaming him when it rains and this one is REALLY early to call as far as blame is concerned. The fight to get rid of don't ask don't tell is going to take YEARS, especially with the kind of opposition he's going to get from Congress and more importantly the military itself.
He could also use the bully pulpit to admonish congress for not acting. But since he's taken office, we've heard very little from him on the subject.
I can't believe the original poster is comparing don't-ask-don't-tell to racism. lol Apples and oranges
Vs.
"We cannot accept gays in the military! That is morally wrong"
The irony of it all.
This just pisses me off so much it's UGH. WTF I mean that last operation he did he could've just scrapped it and called it a wash considering all the technical problems. That would've been the SMART thing to do. But he put his country before his own life.
He put his COUNTRY before his own LIFE.
If someone stepped infront of me to catch a bullet I don't care if he was gay, transexual, black, asian what the fuck EVER.
The fact that someone could get shot infront of you and then some people out there would be like EWW EWW ITS A GAY!! Makes me SICK.
I fucking hate humanity.
I mean, it's been over three months now, and we still have global warming, soldiers are still in Iraq, DOMA hasn't been repealed, he hasn't fixed the financial crisis, Guantanamo is still open, teachers still underpaid, we're not back to 0% unemployment, he hasn't fixed health care, AND WHERES MY GODDAMN MAGICAL PONY???!!!
I mean, what the fuck has he been doing this whole time? Playing basketball with his socialist buddies?
WORST. PREZNIT. EVER.
That man is a fucking national hero. Its a damn shame religion has such a massive stranglehold on the US.
I'm confused by this.
How is someone who bombs the shit out of innocent people, a "hero"? Nothing against this guy, and obviously nothing to do with DADT, but what he did in Afghanistan 7 years ago obviously didn't work, and then he went on to killing innocent people in an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.
@snoozn: I don't find it a very honorable "family tradition" to enlist yourself in the possible killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
^Really? Discriminating against a minority population in a work place- for bogus reasons based on personal prejudices. You don't see any similarity there?
Nope. The difference is everyone was on equal footing in regards to racism. Racism was basically brought on by the government to begin with. A average educated person knew it was wrong. Racism vs blacks at least was not widespread other than the US. Being gay is pretty universally opposed around the world.
>> ^dag:
^Really? Discriminating against a minority population in a work place- for bogus reasons based on personal prejudices. You don't see any similarity there?
...Being gay is pretty universally opposed around the world.
Welcome to videosift you bigot.
Enjoy your stay, although I doubt it will be a long one.
You mean except North America, Europe, Australia, and South America?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_homosexuality_laws.svg
Fortunately, there are still some brave holdouts in Africa and the Middle East in which you can still get the death penalty for it, so don't feel like history has passed you by just yet
>> ^dag:
^Really? Discriminating against a minority population in a work place- for bogus reasons based on personal prejudices. You don't see any similarity there?
Nope. The difference is everyone was on equal footing in regards to racism. Racism was basically brought on by the government to begin with. A average educated person knew it was wrong. Racism vs blacks at least was not widespread other than the US. Being gay is pretty universally opposed around the world.
I thought people like you were supposed to be blissful....
You don't seem very happy. Sigh. Another saying shown to be incorrect.
He violated a rule and is getting fired..nothing to discuss.
I can't believe the original poster is comparing don't-ask-don't-tell to racism. lol Apples and oranges
they are both fruits...
instead of apples and oranges, how about hippopotamuses and vacuum cleaners?
"We should be allowed to torture and waterboard human beings!"
Vs.
"We cannot accept gays in the military! That is morally wrong"
The irony of it all.
^ Would upvote 100 times.
"don't ask don't tell" is functionally equivalent to the previous total ban on homosexuality in the military (when there were also homosexuals in the military who kept it secret). It's time to move forward into the fucking 21st century and stop this persecution, no matter what redneck fundamentalists think about it. Leviticus is only fit for toilet paper.
Back in the 1860s, a war was neeeded to stretch the military thin enough that they would accept blacks into their ranks. A similar situation is occurring now. Obama obviously won't veto a successor to this policy, but he doesn't want to get his name attached to the policy allowing gays in the military at the risk of offending some rural blue collar union bigots who helped him win the election (or maybe he'll wait for the 2nd term).
If Gore had been our president these last 8 years, instead of John Roberts and Sam Alito on the supreme court, we would have 2 more liberal justices on a court that was already leaning left. We might already have had gay marriage legalized throughout the country.
The far-left's self-sabotage theory of progress is contradicted by the evidence (and common sense).
Wouldn't want to go out on a limb and take a real stand.
You keep blaming this mess on the real progressives when the fault is in your lap: your inability to take a real stand when it matters most.
So thank God for the real progressives who gave us Stephen Harper, Bush & Cheney, and John Roberts & Samuel Alito for the next few decades.
I would just feel awful if the US hadn't been torturing for the last 8 years, and if equal marriage for individuals like this fighter pilot had already been legalized across the country.