Tags for this video have been changed from 'john mccain, free speech, sign' to 'john mccain, free speech, sign, peaceably, assemble' - edited by my15minutes

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff69/my15minutes/firstamendment.jpg

^ That quaint thing? Please. Only librul tree-hugging marxists care about rights for criminals like librarians (they're hiding something).

edit? there was no edit, I always said marxist, and you're unpatriotic for impugning my service to the sift by saying otherwise.

I hope we're not getting the whole story. I really don't like all the buck passing that was going on cuz it seemed like..."Umm, a representative from the Secret Service told me to give you a ticket, so I am. I'm not really sure that you're doing anything illegal, but here's your ticket. Now get off this public property."

If the situation is as silly as this video would lead us to believe, I hope a judge throws the ticket out.

God. I can't believe this shit happens. The problem is that only a small percentage of Americans actually know their rights. (unlike drunk people who know more the more they drink) An even smaller percentage of the knowledgeable actually care to take action. I gotta do some research on this one.

Heres the article in the Denver Post. I'll post more information as I find it. http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9811687?source=bb

Did you guys hear about the janitor at Purdue?

Crazy but not surprising, the US is a police state.

Someone needs to tell that librarian that the Bill of Rights has been moved to the Fiction section.

In Australia, police officers are not allowed to issue a ticket or arrest someone for what the officer beleives to be trespassing, its only when they are told by the owner of the land that the truant is tresspassing, and under that advisement can they take action.

So when the cop said "No hes saying you are trespassing on city property", thats not sloppy policework, thats correct OP.

There doesnt need to be any reason either, the owner can just tell the cops to arrest you / ticket you and remove you from the property for trespassing without a reason, and they gotta do it.

Bottom line, McCain hired out the event space, and didnt want anti-mccain people there....so he used the cops to get rid of em.

"The group was told it would have to rent space or use previously designated protest areas along the street, Schiavone said. "

Hello 1920's Soviet Russia, Comrade Lenin wants his ideas back.

^only problem is that the SS guy doesn't own the property, and the property is public and so she had every right to be there.

>> ^BenjaminFranklin2u:
Crazy but not surprising, the US is a police state.


O RLY? I think you would change your tune if you ever lived in a real police state.

And good digging, A185. But charliem is right. If it's not legally defined at public space, then the people that rented it had the day. It essentially becomes private property.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
>> ^BenjaminFranklin2u:
Crazy but not surprising, the US is a police state.

O RLY? I think you would change your tune if you ever lived in a real police state.
And good digging, A185. But charliem is right. If it's not legally defined at public space, then the people that rented it had the day. It essentially becomes private property.


As far as the law is concerned that sounds correct. But when McCain's campaign calls it a town hall meeting then it bloody well better be public and charging someone with trespassing based on the sign they are carrying is even more sickening for being done within the law.

The sign should have read "McCain is < or > Bush". That would have been more acceptable.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
But charliem is right. If it's not legally defined at public space, then the people that rented it had the day. It essentially becomes private property.

While it is clear that the venue is rented, she is being evicted from the plaza, which the police state is city property, and apparently from the video services other venues. While McCain and his staff and security have every right to not admit her to the venue, their claim to monopoly control of the surrounding area sounds suspect at the very least.

If I went to protest an event such as this I would be inclined towards civil disobedience , simply refuse to comply on the grounds of the right to freely assemble/speak, and force them to arrest me, and make the news, especially if I was a short graying female librarian. How would the GOP spin that one?

Under the law as it is now, Private property is essentially a dictatorship. You can be asked to leave by the owner of the property or his representative for any reason whatsoever and failure to comply can be considered trespassing. So Free speech does not really exist at all in 90% of the land of this country, because it's privately owned. Fuck that. If an event is advertised as open to the public then visitors should not be screened on the basis of their political views.

This is especially abhorrent because the McCain supporters in attendence are being deceived into believing they have been exposed to a full cross-section of public opinion in this "town hall meeting" that's really a private party.

Do we live in a police state? I would say no, but it's not entirely out of the question in this country. If it does happen it will come in the form of laws passed quietly while noone is watching and gradual conditioning of the American people with events like this.
It's easy to wade into water thats too deep when it's lukewarm.

boo hoo cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry
I think all the nominees are yahoos but I'm smart enough to know that the rich have the control and boo hoo all you want but that's the way it is.
so wah wah wah give them more money like this lady you've solved nothing.
We know our rights are completely obscured today so you've done the equivalent of telling me smoking causes cancer.
Oh no!!!! boo hoooooo
Get over yourself. OHMYGOD IT'S HITLER TIME CAUZE SHE GOT A TICKET!
boo
hoo

Oh and nice article about the janitor. People love to do things that they know will make other people angry and retaliate so that when they do take flak for pissing people off they can bitch and moan about how unfair life is.
Yes, life is inherently completely unfair. Boooooooo hooooooooo learn how to deal with it rather than complain about it and suddenly it seems more manageable; what a mystery.

hmm...ok then.
I guess I just assumed that the "free speech zone" was generally defined by the Canadian and Mexican border as well as the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean.
Then again I just might be old school...

Outrageous! Certainly the use of *fear by the government. Great post.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
O RLY? I think you would change your tune if you ever lived in a real police state.


I live in America. This is a real police state. You can start with why we have FISA, move to the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and end with the Patriot Act. If that's not enough for you, I've got more! For someone who says they follow Ron Paul, you sure don't listen to what he says, gunner. I'd say start here. It's about as good a book I've ever read. I think everyone, no matter your party affiliation, could learn something from that book. Easy read.

Adding video to channels (Fear) - requested by blankfist.

I don't mean to defend McCain's people, but let's be clear here:

According to the video, she was removed because of the large sign she was holding, not because of what it said. They told her that if she got rid of the sign she could come in. Perhaps they allowed pro-McCain signs, but there was no evidence of that in this video or the linked news story.

Now that being said, they handled the situation in the stupidest possible fashion. They made a typical situation into a news-worthy situation. All they had to do was warn her that signs were not allowed into the auditorium because they wanted everybody to have an unobstructed view. Then stop her at the door if she tried to take it in. Nobody would have debated their authority to stop her at the door.

But the forced removal and ticket was way out of line, and absolutely unforgivable.

Yet another option for Comment of the Year.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
Someone needs to tell that librarian that the Bill of Rights has been moved to the Fiction section.

truthopedia says:

"The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and , in many peoples' opinions, repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population, especially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional republic. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive."

so.... i guess you're out of luck MG. find me a definition that doesn't sound like the USA/UK and call me back.

Do you think they arrested this young girl?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/varocker07/2241016820/

The greatest lie ever told is that the US is a democracy.

>> ^thinker247:
Do you think they arrested this young girl?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/varocker07/2241016820/

Do you think she even knew what the heck she was doing there? She was probably promised democracy flavored ice cream by her dad.

>> ^Farhad2000:
The greatest lie ever told is that the US is a democracy.


This is correct, because America is not a Democracy: It's a Constitutional Republic. Or at least it was supposed to be. Sigh.

Paraphrased
The greatest lie ever told is that the X is a Y.

True for any X where X is a country claiming to be Y.
Where Y is any non-oppressive form of government.

>> ^bcglorf:
As far as the law is concerned that sounds correct. But when McCain's campaign calls it a town hall meeting then it bloody well better be public and charging someone with trespassing based on the sign they are carrying is even more sickening for being done within the law.


I can call my house open to the public but I still reserve the right to kick anyone out.

If you read the article A185 cited, then you would see that the venue was not public space. So for all anyone know, that then-private space comes under the McCain campaign control.


Yes, she should of fought back (not physically), and I sure as shit wouln't have walked off, because I'm sure that she was well within her rights - but for now, all we know for sure is that the article tells us that it wasn't public space.

I couldn't help but laugh at the very end when in the background some guy in a weird green suit is walking up with 2 pictures on it. 1 of mccain's face and the other of bush's face.

It was a Pea Pod suit. Bush and Mcain, two peas in a pod.

I wonder if he got kicked out too.

>> ^NetRunner:
^ That quaint thing? Please. Only librul tree-hugging commies care about rights for criminals like librarians (they're hiding something).


happy to be the 15th upvote there, bud.
well-advised use of the word "quaint".

This went exactly the way Granny & Friends wanted.

She gets youtube exposure instead of being ignored, plus my coveted downvote!


The greatest lie ever told is that the US is a democracy.

Yes, and it's told by the marxists. USA is a republic with representative government.

They should have thrown the book at her. Paperback or hardcover? Can you be escorted out of a public library for holding up political placards or chanting political slogans. I'm guessing you can, even though it's a "public" space. Everyone with any sense should know, you fight an old lady and you lose every time.

>> ^blankfist:
Outrageous! Certainly the use of fear by the government. Great post.
>> ^MarineGunrock:
O RLY? I think you would change your tune if you ever lived in a real police state.

I live in America. This is a real police state. You can start with why we have FISA, move to the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and end with the Patriot Act. If that's not enough for you, I've got more! For someone who says they follow Ron Paul, you sure don't listen to what he says, gunner. I'd say start here. It's about as good a book I've ever read. I think everyone, no matter your party affiliation, could learn something from that book. Easy read.


MarineGunRock only reads books with pictures.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Yes, and it's told by the marxists.

Shit, and I thought I'd pre-QM-commented accurately. It's not the librul tree-hugging commies anymore, we're going all historical with marxist when you're part of the neocon program now.

I'll fix it, because revisionist history is sooooooo neocon marxist.

"representative government" only if you mean representing Boeing and KBR.

Of course not. And later they probably went to church to pray to the invisible man in the sky so McCain will win and kill all the dark people.

>> ^MrConrads:
>>^thinker247:
Do you think they arrested this young girl?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/varocker07/2241016820/

Do you think she even knew what the heck she was doing there? She was probably promised democracy flavored ice cream by her dad.

If you reserve the right to kick people off your property for any reason, simply because it's your private property, then what would happen if they had kicked out a black guy, then said their reason was, "Because he's a nigg..."?

"I'm sorry sir, the Secret Service has told us to remove all darkies from the property. I'm giving you a ticket for being black in a private town hall meeting area. Please don't let it happen again."

There was no valid reason to kick her out, beyond simply not liking her sign. Which is quite odd, since it was only comparing McCain to a dictator with blood on his hands.

^i like what she says at the end... "to a republican, what's offensive about this?"

very clever point.

maybe she should have stood her ground more, but she still made her point strongly and without ranting.

>> ^BenjaminFranklin2u:

MarineGunRock only reads books with pictures.


Whats that supposed to mean?

^it's a retarded insult. just downvote it man, comment voting is the solution to everything.

They moved it from the children's books area?

>> ^kronosposeidon:
Someone needs to tell that librarian that the Bill of Rights has been moved to the Fiction section.

>> ^arsenault185:
>> ^BenjaminFranklin2u:
MarineGunRock only reads books with pictures.

Whats that supposed to mean?


I've noticed that he likes to do that in a lot of threads. My advice is to keep it up. I have an itchy trigger finger.

>> ^jwray:
Under the law as it is now, Private property is essentially a dictatorship. You can be asked to leave by the owner of the property or his representative for any reason whatsoever and failure to comply can be considered trespassing. So Free speech does not really exist at all in 90% of the land of this country, because it's privately owned. Fuck that.

Free country? Do you think that is really what our soldiers are 'fighting' and 'dying' for? No. They are fighting and dying for a corporate run war profiteering state.

She now has the right to counter claim that her constitutional rights for free speech were violated, and I can guarantee you.. in any true free and fair system, She would win hands down.

Tough to find such a thing in the US of course.

Now you know why people are trying to name a sewage treatment plant after George W. Bush.

>> ^MarineGunrock:
>> ^arsenault185:
>> ^BenjaminFranklin2u:
MarineGunRock only reads books with pictures.

Whats that supposed to mean?

I've noticed that he likes to do that in a lot of threads. My advice is to keep it up. I have an itchy trigger finger.


Do it! Do it! Don't be chicken!

>> ^Xax:

>> ^jwray:
Under the law as it is now, Private property is essentially a dictatorship. You can be asked to leave by the owner of the property or his representative for any reason whatsoever and failure to comply can be considered trespassing. So Free speech does not really exist at all in 90% of the land of this country, because it's privately owned. Fuck that.

so lemme get this straight...

we protect minorities from discrimination in hiring, school admissions, etc.

but we can't protect protesters from discrimination?

the woman had a sign that had no indecent pictures or language. she was punished with a fine and ejection from the premises, and in fact banishment from the premises under penalty of future arrest. this is hardly proportional punishment. and it is plain that those present without signs got preferential protection vs those who had signs that said "mccain = bush."

this response appears to violate 2 amendments that i know of.

If this was truly considered private property, I don't have a problem with them having her removed because of her sign. That's their prerogative. I do have a problem if the Secret Service was involved. She obviously wasn't a physical threat to McCain - it was her political message they didn't like. If the Secret Service had anything to do with her removal because of this political message, there should be serious repercussions.

[Of course, there won't be.]

I think that you guys are really invoking some serious change by having this discussion on a useless internet forum on some video website.
Keep it up.
Moan bitch Moan bitch moan bitch click click click time to watch tv

re:iloseatlife. Keeping quiet is a much better solution, right? Discussion is certainly not enough though. People have to kick it Gandhi style to get any real results.
-Karl

If the government actually represented the people, something would be done. But of course, they don't represent the people at all. Otherwise.. the same morons wouldn't keep getting re-elected, even with a 14% approval rating (congress).

The flag is is the symbol, but the Bill of Rights is the ideal. The right to protest was paid for with American blood and American lives. The police and McCain's people just shit on every single one of them.

Interestingly, Tahitians, prior to encounter with Europeans, had little concept of "private" property. The land was so productive and fertile, there wasn't need for competition for resources. This caused considerable consternation to Capt. Cook when he landed in Tahiti and the natives decided to borrow a few of his items.

When resources get more scarce and competition for them grows, the concept of private property, land rights and rule of law become much more important for societal stability. Zimbabwe comes to mind.

>> ^honkeytonk73:
If the government actually represented the people, something would be done. But of course, they don't represent the people at all. Otherwise.. the same morons wouldn't keep getting re-elected, even with a 14% approval rating (congress).


I think those congress approval ratings reflect more of people's dissatisfaction with representatives from other districts than dissatisfaction with their own district. I know of no individual congressman with an approval rating that low in his own district.

'I (heart) McCain/Bush', or 'McCain; Four More Years' ... something less obvious...

The first amendment has been evaluated by the supreme court on numerous occasion in the last 75 years. It has evolved in its interpretation as to what free speech really means and what limits free speech bears. Obviously if McCain rented the property, she could be asked to leave, and failure to leave could result in arrest for trespassing. But would she have a right to protest under any circumstance?

NO, because time PLACE and manner are all very important. There are limits to when where and how you can say just about anything. I can say obscene things all I want in my home, but saying them in a public place would lead to my arrest. In this case her protest put her in close proximity to those she protest against. If I were mccain and trying to avoid a lawsuit because someone at my event assaulted a protester, I would certainly remove the protester. Abortion clinics are open to the public but your conduct must comply with the wishes of the property owner, ie you can't take your dead baby sign into the lobby.

If this were city property that was rented out to a private interest (which it was, read the link above to the news article) those same rules apply. The city is certainly entitled to rent out property to private groups. And those groups can selectively choose who may enter them. For example, I could rent that same location and make "white males only" as a requirement for attendance. There is nothing illegal about that. Racist sexist and immoral, but not illegal. Do you find it odd that they brought a video camera to record the expulsion from the event? I don't, they knew in advance they would be asked to leave this event. Do you generally go to events designed for people you disagree with and not expect conflict?

I haven't seen the KKK at any Obama rally's, for a similar reason I would guess. I am definitely not a klan member, but It would be interesting to put on the garb and record what happened to me when I went to the rally. I could make an internet video and create a buzz about how the communist liberals don't respect my rights and completely ignore the fact it was a private event with conditional requirement for attendance. It would be similar to this video I expect with the exception the posts would be about communist instead of fascist.

Everyone posting in an attempt to justify this situation are missing the point.

The reason for this submission is to show that authority figures, and just people in general are losing sight as to what this country was founded on, and that the participation of the Secret Service, as well as the issue of a ticket were out of line and could have been handled better.

"I'll fix it, because revisionist history is sooooooo neocon marxist."

Newsspeak, labels, and trendy buzzwords is simply another head of the same hydra-solutions are not arrived at by discussions ad-infinitum, but by actions. Civil Disobedience is the power that all the ranting people are dickless to initiate.

You want change? Stop playing a broken game. Stop paying your taxes.Stop buying fuel to play with. Stop shopping. Stop going to WalMart. Stop watching Hollowwood, or any news media, or radio. Knock the corporate dick out from under itself, and watch the true roaches who run the State hotels for political implants, scatter. Then kill them, and their families.

Then, make yer own paradigm.

Oh, I have not said fuck Obama yet today, what better place than on his greatest fan's post.
Fuck Obama.

Fuck em all, they suck equally-

The police officer(s) involved here should be trialed for neglecting duty. when they make themselves the tools of these liars and criminals, they are a disgrace to their badge. I say get they badge number and vote them down.

@choggie

You have your strategy, I have mine. Yours is to scream "you're all idiots" at people on the Internet saying the only solution is to disconnect from society, and hope enough people follow your lead to make a difference.

Mine is to try to support the opponents of a lawless band of fools who've taken over my country's government, and expose those fools for who they are.

You can be disillusioned all you like, but I'd be happy to go back to the imperfect days of George H.W. Bush or Bill Clinton rather than have to suffer this constant push to destroy the fundamentals of our government from a political party that I used to simply have a philosophical difference with.

Now they're the enemy of democracy itself, and you seem to think not paying your taxes will make a bit of difference when the civil protections of our society are coming apart at the seams?

There's a lot wrong, but unless you're raising an army for a revolution, I don't see why you feel you have to discourage people from trying to still use political activism to try to push back this foul tide.

I know I'm pushing for the lesser of two evils, not the end-all be-all fix for everything. I also know if Obama doesn't win, we've lost for good.

Not sure why I bother explaining though, you'll just declare me a mindless parrot of the machine, maybe make a joke about bodily functions, and continue on with your holier-than-thou crusade to make everyone think they're hopelessly fucked.

>> ^jwray:
>> ^honkeytonk73:
If the government actually represented the people, something would be done. But of course, they don't represent the people at all. Otherwise.. the same morons wouldn't keep getting re-elected, even with a 14% approval rating (congress).

I think those congress approval ratings reflect more of people's dissatisfaction with representatives from other districts than dissatisfaction with their own district. I know of no individual congressman with an approval rating that low in his own district.


We can toss numbers around. The fact remains that we have an unpopular president and an unpopular congress that is not doing it's job FOR the people IN the interests of the people. I don't care which party which politician is from. In the end, they are all panderers to the same corporate lobbies tromping around Washington with fists stuffed full of cash.

The American people are not being heard. The average person is getting POORER and worse off as a result of the actions of this government. We are NOT more secure. In fact we are far worse off now than we were 8 years ago.

Imagine if we adopted Bush's privatized social security reform (as McCain wants to implement, though he uses sly speech to avoid the question). With the markets tanking, your privatized social security would be in quite a world of hurt right now.

Rising inflation. Stagnant wages, except for the most elite of course. Increasing healthcare and fuel costs in the double digit percentages year over year. In the end. The middle class citizen is much worse off. Our expenses are rising faster than our wages. The net result. A poorer nation.

The working poor are too busy working to vote, participate in public discourse, or become involved in communities, AND keep a watchful eye on their government. Perfect environment for a repressive government to form. Don't you think?

Sometimes I wish I could understand choggie. Not very often, but sometimes.

@choggie

I agree with you on virtually all of what you said.

I'm not a huge fan of the political game, and I'm way less of a fan of the media war that's waged for the profit of a few, the benefit of none, and likely does have some sinister puppetmasters trying to tilt things towards their desires.

I haven't seen much good come from the political process in my lifetime, though the history books never made it sound fast or easy, but it did seem like over time, committed people can make a difference. Problem is, most people I've known haven't given a fuck either way -- until now.

I don't know that it'll amount to anything, and I'm worried it won't come to anything, but I'm giving it a try, because the only other alternatives seem to be fight or flight at this point.

As for "some people" getting everything from TV, or "some people" needing to understand history without parroting it, I agree, though I can't think of anyone around here for who that's true. This is essentially an anti-TV shrine, with quite a few intellectual views of history. It's certainly not true of me, if that's what you're implying.

I'm sure watching a lot of TV these days, but it's generally accompanied with me yelling at the TV like a madman as they lie and distort virtually everything they cover. I'm watching it because what the mind-control minions of the cable news networks say ends up tilting elections.

I'm still not willing to believe all elections are shams, even if the process by which we narrow 300 million people to 2 bothers me a lot, so I try to keep up on the "narrative" of the day, and do my best to debunk it where I can.

I'm rather torn about my particular horse in this race now, as he just voted to eliminate the 4th amendment yesterday, and there's no good explanation for why, except he thinks it'll help him win, I suppose.

Things like this little old lady getting a ticket for political expression just reminds me what's at stake, and that even if Obama's been duped into ceding part of the constitution to try to stop these idiots from spinning another lie in the noise machine, he at least has to rely on a base of support that wants this shit to stop. Even if he's just another power-hungry fool, he's one who's got to make a good show of preserving our rights, or he'll be eaten alive by the entire political spectrum.

You and I shouldn't be at odds with each other, because we are both crazy about the same problem. We differ on solutions, in that you don't see the point in mine, and yours is too radical for me...for now.

We'd probably disagree on the exact form we'd want a new paradigm to take, but we can worry about that after we've won.

talking about this country and the grim future it is headed to makes me want to find out what hot bullets taste like.

Blobfish is bellicose and basically correct. This country is, for the most part, run from the bottom up not the top down. Key words "for the most part."
Consumers want cheap prices. Walmart, and other purveyors of sweat shop labor, prosper and so does their political power via influenced legislators. The inefficient and bloated legal system is maintained by the fact that many in government share the profession and want to protect their own. Citizens want to work for, and invest in hugely successful juggernauts of capitalism, making those companies powerful in the political playing field.
In short, presidents have limited ability to influence the course of a capitalist and free society. The true power lies with the public, in their spending habits, their day to day choices, and their support of local government that might possibly trickle up throught the legislative process. I'm not lobbying for either candidate here. If McCain wins, it won't be the end of the world. If Obama wins it's not going to be paradise in 4, or 8 years, for that matter. However, that doesn't absolve us from making political choices that gently steer the ship one direction or the other. Political hysteresis shouldn't keep us from following our hearts and minds in choosing our candidates.

screaming idiot is the siren's call to bringing the ship to the reef for pussy...

^
Is that good or bad? I reference Homer Simpson more than Homer of old. I'm exposing my lack of sophistication.

Geesh, I didn't even use "bellicose" in the right context. I was trying to say "strong conviction and wordy", not belligerent. I should consult dictionary.com more often for vocabulary. Further exposing lack of sophistication.

Someone please change the title to "Librarian with McCain=Bush sign ticketed"! This site is turning into a liberal Fox News...catchy misleading headlines included.

>> ^campionidelmondo:
Someone please change the title to "Librarian with McCain=Bush sign ticketed"! This site is turning into a liberal Fox News...catchy misleading headlines included.


You're right about the title. Changed.

Why is everyone here not getting a very simple point?

Just because the city owns something, does not make it open to the public. The city owns the police dept's partol cars, does that mean you have the right to drive off in one?

Didn't think so.

Here is the article from the Huffington Post. Drudge Report has yet to post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/11/mccain-campaign-had-prote_n_112255.html

Some people's point of view seems to be Nihilism: give up, it's hopeless, they're all corrupt liars, we're doomed no matter what, do nothing.

Others say: yeah 'bama is flawed but of the 2 available optons given to us by the power elite, he represents the last best feeble hope for humanity. Sux but that's all there is.

Memorare, it is easier to believe a lie, than to construct one-there are a lot of folks who are very "sophisticated" in that respect-know thy enemy-the enemy of free will, is the spin created to make one think they are exercising it, especially with regard to elections, and especially in the United States.

Obama is a fast track to more insanity, Mc Cain is a fast track to more of the same, and Hillary has been more or less, effectively clitorectimied, but hell, what do I know, I don't vote nor would mine matter anyhow.....Woman in the white house would be great, if Hillary was actually a woman...

I can think of ten better female candidates:
Jenna Jameson
Ellen Muth
8 other females with no political aspirations, of anyone's choice.....

>> ^quantumushroom:
Yes, and (the lie) is told by the marxists.

Shit, and I thought I'd pre-QM-commented accurately. It's not the librul tree-hugging commies anymore, we're going all historical with marxist when you're part of the neocon program now.


Marxists, communists, liberals, socialists: same old shit, different colored buckets.

When you're called on your BS and parrot it, even the truth sounds like a lie in your gullets.

Legal or not, the scariest part is this is how McCain acts before hes even elected...whats he gonna do when he actually has some real power?

>> ^quantumushroom:


Marxists, communists, liberals, socialists, conservatives, republicans, rightwingers: same old shit, different colored buckets.
When you're called on your BS and parrot it, even the truth sounds like a lie in your gullets.


there i fixed that for you.

by the way you sound like you are from 1954.

*law

Adding video to channels (Law) - requested by rottenseed.