Well. I will go ahead and downvote this.

Now let me explain why.
The analogy used is totally off. God gives us an unearned gift of pardon for our sin. The analogy that God has the knife to our throats is wrong. God doesn't hold the knife, we do. God has no intention to make us suffer for eternity.
Sin seperates us from God. Sin is a hole we dug ourselves and only Jesus can file that hole. It is totally up to us wheter we wish to receive that give or not (or as the analogy here in this video puts it - we can choose to slit our own throats or let God intervene).
But anyhow, the analogy in this video would have been better if sin was God's doing and not ours.


Poo. I just found out I still can't downvote.

You are born a sinner. Just remember that you are unpure and you need to worship God to ensure salvation. Don't think too hard or try to be free, just worship. Worship and obey.

SilentPoet:

the christian mythology states the following:

god knows everything
god created everything
god created humans
god placed a condition on humans (don't eat the fruit)
god knew that humans could not meet that condition

Thus, god created humans knowing that they would fail.

god punishes humans for doing exactly what he created them to do.

god then hides, whispers secrets into the ears of various nomadic folks over several hundred years, sends his son who is himself to die, and continues whispering secrets to a select few.

god then states that he will forgive us for doing what we were designed to do, only if we believe in him based on the writings of men who hear voices in their heads.


in the old testament, god repeatedly shows great joy at making people suffer who are not His Chosen People.

The southern accent clashes nicely with the outfit. Upvote, just because it's so damn weird.

"god then states that he will forgive us for doing what we were designed to do, only if we believe in him based on the writings of men who hear voices in their heads.
in the old testament, god repeatedly shows great joy at making people suffer who are not His Chosen People."

Your knowledge of history and theology is truly astounding. I feel enlightened beyond what mere words can describe.

BillOreilly :

Just a sampling from "The Good Book", because nobody who believes in it has actually read it.

Psalms
58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.


Leviticus:
25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.



26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
26:16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
26:17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
26:18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
26:19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
26:20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
26:21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
26:22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children , and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
26:23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
26:25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26:26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
26:27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.


2nd Kings:
1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.


2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

lol that was so weird and hateful sounding, upvote

BillO is all talk and no substance.

Born tainted by a crime you did not commit nor participated in but the path of salvation is unquestioned worship of the invisible man in the sky. Yeah that's gods justice for you. Anyone that clams to know the mind of god is crazy or a lair. Abraham was a schizophrenic psychopath. And the story of Moses was a blatant plagiarism of the story of Gilgamesh. Just like ever religion its just a plagiarism and invention based on what came before it.

"Just a sampling from "The Good Book", because nobody who believes in it has actually read it."

plz, speak for yourself, not everyone else


"BillO is all talk and no substance."

Agreed.

> You are born a sinner. Just remember that you are unpure and you need to worship God to ensure salvation. Don't think too hard or try to be free, just worship. Worship and obey.

That's almost right. You messed up on this part: You don't have to TRY to be free, because you are BORN free. And you are FREE to choose to worship or not.

Thanks for twisting my words and intent in a classically Christian manner, Marr. As if you don't know what I mean. Sure you're free not to worship, but that is the road to hell, which is no choice at all.

Budzos: LOL
It must be hard to live life with blinders as big as yours.

"that is the road to hell" HILARIOUS. You should be in a comedy club.

"Worship me or suffer!" Yeah, how nice and benevolent. If heaven's so great, why all the threats? If god is so great, why do we need to be bribed to worship him?

Religion was nothing but a tool to control the masses so the nobles and the elite could maintain their power. It still is to a large extent, but some people in the higher echelons actually believe this crap now, too.

I think the guy in this video needs to understand something: If God didn't love you, He wouldn't warn you about the consequences. He would just let you suck at life, thinking you were alright, and then at the end cast you into hell. And yet, we know that God is Love - and therefore, in regard to the imperfection of the video's analogy, I agree in this regard:

It is not as if God is holding the knife to your throat. He is not out to threaten you into Loving Him. (What kind of Love would THAT be??? It would not be Love at all.) More like you are falling onto the knife, and you can choose to reach out for rescue or not. With regard to not being able to 'see God', if you were falling onto the knife and there was a sign next to it that said, REACH OUT HAND TO BE RESCUED, I think the atheists among us would be characterized as thinking, "Wait a second. This sign doesn't PROVE that sticking out my hand for rescue will actually get me rescued," and so they choose not to. The faithful chooses to believe, and does it.

So that is the Atheist and the Faithful. But there is a third kind of person. This is the one who does not yet believe the sign, but FIRST reaches out his hand and yells out in sincerity, "Show me that you're there!" This 'third person' is actually what EVERY 'Faithful' person has once been. The faithful were ALL atheists until they humbled themselves, cried out, and discovered that someone was indeed there.

My point is that in order for you to be rescued, you first have to believe that rescue is possible. If you just reach out your hand, and do not believe, well, you're just sticking your hand out, and not sticking it out to be rescued, aren't you? One might argue, "Well, doesn't God love everyone? Me, included? Wouldn't He just grab me by the back of my undies and wedgie me to safety?" Yes, He does love you, even though you go around defaming Him. But, if you CHOOSE to end up a rotten tomato, the gardener will not give you to the chef, and you will be thrown away. It is not more complicated than that.

You choose. You face whichever consequence. You take responsibility for yourself unless you choose to give that responsibilty to the gardener.

The good news is it is perhaps not that immeadiate, and we all have a goodly time to read and understand and think about the message on that sign before we actually hit the knife. But make no mistake, when the time comes that the knife has entered your body, time is up. (When I wrote this, I laughed because I sounded like such a fear monger, but really, if what I wrote worries you, it is not because I have created the fear in you, it is because I have spoken the truth and you do not like it.)

In closing, I'd like to add that God didn't make you so that you would "worship" Him like a blind fool. God made you in order to share Himself with you. If you were pure Love, pure Light, there is absolutely nothing else you could do BUT create someone to share yourself with. Otherwise, you wouldn't be pure Love, would you.

> Thanks for twisting my words and intent in a classically Christian manner, Marr.

I did not twist your words. I wrote my own.

> As if you don't know what I mean.
> Sure you're free not to worship, but that is the road to hell, which is no choice at all.

What you meant is that you do not like one of the two possible outcomes. That doesn't mean you don't have a choice.

> "Worship me or suffer!" Yeah, how nice and benevolent. If heaven's so great, why all the threats? If god is so great, why do we need to be bribed to worship him?

Why do you laugh at budzos for thinking about it, and then ask your own questions the same as he? hohoho

I want to provoke him to say more hilarious things, because there is no answer that could be given that is not absurd.

Yours are pretty funny, too. If god was pure love, as you state (and others have stated based on claims made in the bible), how can there be suffering?
Note, you said *PURE* love, as in, nothing but that. Why would you create things that suffer?

> Why would you create things that suffer?

The answer depends on what kind of suffering you mean. You mean being able to sense pain? Or kids starving to death in the desert?

This video was hilarious. Does this mean that insurance companies will now consider knife-point robberies "acts of God?"

Marr, starving to death in a desert is probably fairly painful (as I've not starved to death in a desert, I can only speculate). But things of that nature. Being able to feel pain, emotional, physical. Pure Love, as greatly undefined as it is (seriously, what would pure love be? The description itself defies anything meaningful.) would suggest that it would not create things that would have negatives. Unless love contains these negatives, but that contradicts . But hey, Pure Love is ultimately a meaningless description. And how can you be two pure things? The sky is Pure blue and Pure red. Doesn't work.

Marr:

re: your knife analogy...

if somebody dug a pit
lined the bottom with knives
greased the edges of the pit
shoved you towards that pit
and then said "I love you, reach out and I will save you"
would that be love? would that person be a hero for saving you?


allow me to break it down:
according to christianity,
who created hell? god
who created humans? god
who created The Tree? god
who placed the stipulation about eating from the tree? god
who created satan, the one who tempted eve? god
who claims to know all that has, and ever will happen? god

god set up humanity to fail.
In law enforcement, we call that entrapment, and consider it illegal.




the free will analogies are not too dissimilar to this:

lock someone in a cage with food.
tell them that if they eat the food, you will kill them.
it is their choice to eat the food and be shot, or starve.
they still have free will.
you know the urge to not starve will be too strong to resist.
The defense of "they shot themself by eating the food" will not hold up in court.

to add to sometimes rant

who created evil? god (according to the bible)

"SilentPoet:

the christian mythology states the following:

god knows everything
god created everything
god created humans
god placed a condition on humans (don't eat the fruit)
god knew that humans could not meet that condition

Thus, god created humans knowing that they would fail.

god punishes humans for doing exactly what he created them to do."
Wrong. That is like saying a father who raises his son and knows that he will eventually do something wrong, be it chop down a cherry tree or steal from the cookie jar, raised his son to do so. It doesn't work like that.

"god then hides, whispers secrets into the ears of various nomadic folks over several hundred years, sends his son who is himself to die, and continues whispering secrets to a select few.

god then states that he will forgive us for doing what we were designed to do, only if we believe in him based on the writings of men who hear voices in their heads."
We were not designed to sin, God simply knew we would and allowed us to. Saying that God meant for us to sin is like saying any inventor who knows that his invention cannot last forever explicitly meant for it to break.


"in the old testament, god repeatedly shows great joy at making people suffer who are not His Chosen People."
I disagree. God did many harsh things in the Old Testament, but it was to protect His people, be it from physical harm or falling into sin. It seems harsh, but His people had a really hard time following Him. Unfortunately, force was the only thing that got their attention sometimes.

upvote 'cause i lol'd.

"We were not designed to sin, God simply knew we would and allowed us to. Saying that God meant for us to sin is like saying any inventor who knows that his invention cannot last forever explicitly meant for it to break."

Uhhh... no it's not. If god is all powerful then he can make an invention that doesn't break, can't he? Everything is explicitely how god wanted it to be, or he's not all powerful. Pick one.

Christians don't believe in God.
They just believe that they should believe.
Nobody really actually believes in God. Not really.

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