Atheist,Experience,Transcendental,Argument,God,Existence Excellent Debate From the Atheist Experience...

Excellent Debate From the Atheist Experience...

posted by ObsidianStorm

8 months 2 weeks ago • 894 views

tags: Atheist, Experience, Transcendental, Argument, God, Existence

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First of a five part debate between Matt Dillhunty of the Atheist Experience cable access show and Matt Slick regarding the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God (TAG).

There's a lot of great stuff here and it really is worth watching the whole debate - a lot of basic philosophy and logic is employed and it's fun to watch Slick get flustered. It's obvious that he has been able to fluster a good number of atheists with this schtick but Matt pins him down and it's great to watch him struggle as he gets caught a number of contradictions and logical fallacies.

Enjoy.

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Moving this video to ObsidianStorm's personal queue. It failed to receive enough votes to get sifted up to the front page within 2 days.

written by siftbot

| 8 months 2 weeks ago | CH

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You can swap this embed with this playlist of the whole debate if you want:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=DDA4661AC27815DA

written by xxovercastxx

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*promote

written by ObsidianStorm

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Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued - promote requested by original submitter ObsidianStorm.

written by siftbot

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*talks

written by Ornthoron

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Adding video to channels (Talks) - requested by Ornthoron.

written by siftbot

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A rock is a rock is a rock.

written by gwiz665

| 8 months 1 week ago | CH

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I'm wondering why he didnt pull the old philosophical question: If a tree falls in the forest, and noone is around to hear it, does it still make a sound? The whole argument seems to be over this. The caller is clearly not getting it. His logic seems to be that logic needs to actually be stated or conceptualized or be physical in some sense in order to "exist". The thing about abstracts is precisely that they dont really exist the way physical objects or thoughts or statements exists, thats why we call them abstracts.

written by BicycleRepairMan

| 8 months 1 week ago | CH

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Caller was trying to relate two unrelated properties of a thing. The two properties are "conceptual" and "physical". Things can be either conceptual or non-conceptual. Things also can be either physical or non-physical. A thing can therefore have 2x2 combinations of these properties: conceptual and physical, non-conceptual and physical, conceptual and non-physical, and non-conceptual and non-physical. It's unfortunate the host didn't recognize this, I think he was just too flustered to come back to it.

Asking for a third option between "conceptual or physical" is comparing apples to oranges. That is, unless conceptual is non-physical and non-conceptual is physical, which is not necessarily true according to the host's argument (because of the definition of "conceptual" meaning "of the mind").

One could say that there is a third option available between physical and non-physical, that being the idea of "null" or "unknown" or "undefined", but it could then be argued that just because it isn't known to us doesn't mean that it isn't "known" to someone, something else, or to the universe.

Fun video until the caller stopped listening and stopped considering the host's points. I'm impressed with the way they sling terminology around... they obviously did well in ancient philosophy.

written by jrbedford | 8 months 1 week ago | CH

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there was a misunderstanding of the semantics of some words by the caller.
he sees the word logic to mean 'to reason something' rather than that things in the universe can simply run in a logical order. they should have slowed down and simplified the argument without the terminology perhaps then the reason for the disagreement would be obvious.

written by 8727 | 8 months 1 week ago | CH

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What is with that insistence on thinking of logical absolutes as objects of some kind? The concepts are objects of course, but the absolutes themselves do not exist as such in the conventional sense of the word - they are the limits on reality that exist only in the sense that we can deduce what is and is not logically possible. To require them to actually be something in the sense that a physical object or a conceptual object is something seems to me to imply logical absolutes might be contingent on something, that they might be mutable, which would render them invalid. They are not part of reality, they do not even exist in the sense that somewhere outside reality you have absolutes hanging around, doing their logical A=A schtick. A strange kind of circular reasoning here perhaps, but the absolutes are absolutes because if they were not, they would not be. I don't see why they must stem from something.

written by rebuilder | 3 months 4 weeks ago | CH

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Nice to hear an intelligent debate for once, even though it got hung up by the caller's misunderstanding of the definition of certain words and the utility of certain logical principles.

written by nibiyabi

| 3 months 3 weeks ago | CH

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Two thoughts on this:

1. In precisely the same way that "not A" is not equal to "B", "non contingent" does not equal "physical", but just because we can't list everything that it does equal doesn't invalidate our claim - it only means we don't know.

2. I don't like the way they used "mind". Personally I think brain would be a better word, as I am a monoist.

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Would This 16th Century Helmet Terrify a Jousting Opponent? http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/itWtun6v5aY/ http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/10/would-this-16th-century-helmet-terrify-a-jousting-opponent/#comments Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:00:29 +0000 Minnesotastan http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27415 This embossed, etched, and gilded steel close helmet is attributed to German armourer Kolman Helmschmid. It currently resides in the collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where there is a relevant essay on fashion in 16th century European armor.

Helmets fitted with masklike visors were a popular German and Austrian fashion about 1510 to 1540. With their visors forged and embossed as humorous or grotesque human masks, such helmets were often worn in tournaments held during the exuberant pre-Lenten (Shrovetide) festivals, celebrations somewhat akin to the modern Mardi Gras. Substitute visors of more conventional type were often provided for everyday use.

Interestingly, the postulated 1515 date for this helmet would make it contemporary with the “horned helmet” previously posted at Neatorama.

Link, via Titam et le Sirop d’Erable. Photo credit Metropolitan Museum of Art.

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They specialize mostly on Russian TV show parodies.">What if Matrix was shot in the silent films era?</a></div><div class="clear-left empty"> </div></div></div> <div class="panel lolite" id="ff-nor"><div class="title center"><a href="http://www.neatorama.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/i/friends/neatorama.gif" border="0" alt="neatorama" /></a></div><ul><li><a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/KJcnwGq4rlU/">The WHY Super-Yacht</a></li><li><a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/KAZ6G_5kZGI/">Stack the Bones</a></li><li><a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/eic1iPp6ph4/">Would This 16th Century Helmet Terrify a Jousting Opponent?</ti fef tle> <link>http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/itWtun6v5aY/</link> <comments>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/10/would-this-16th-century-helmet-terrify-a-jousting-opponent/#comments</comments> <pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:00:29 +0000</pubDate> <dc:creator>Minnesotastan</dc:creator> <category><![CDATA[Weapons & War]]></category> <category><![CDATA[16th century]]></category> <category><![CDATA[armor]]></category> <category><![CDATA[helmet]]></category> <category><![CDATA[Metropolitan Museum of Art]]></category> <guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27415</guid> <description><![CDATA[This embossed, etched, and gilded steel close helmet is attributed to German armourer Kolman Helmschmid. It currently resides in the collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where there is a relevant essay on fashion in 16th century European armor. Helmets fitted with masklike visors were a popular German and Austrian fashion about 1510 to 1540. [...]]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-27416" title="helmet" src="http://www.neatorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/helmet.jpg" alt="helmet" width="484" height="840" />This embossed, etched, and gilded steel close helmet is attributed to German armourer Kolman Helmschmid. It currently resides in the collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, where there is a relevant <a href="http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/afas16/hd_afas16.htm">essay</a> on fashion in 16th century European armor.</p> <blockquote><p>Helmets fitted with masklike visors were a popular German and Austrian fashion about 1510 to 1540. With their visors forged and embossed as humorous or grotesque human masks, such helmets were often worn in tournaments held during the exuberant pre-Lenten (Shrovetide) festivals, celebrations somewhat akin to the modern Mardi Gras. Substitute visors of more conventional type were often provided for everyday use.</p></blockquote> <p>Interestingly, the postulated 1515 date for this helmet would make it contemporary with the “<a href="http://www.neatorama.com/2009/02/15/the-horned-helmet/">horned helmet</a>” previously posted at Neatorama.</p> <p><a href="http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/afas16/ho_04.3.286a.htm">Link</a>, via <a href="http://titam.hautetfort.com/archive/2009/11/10/0b91973dd397fa2339b602315731f644.html">Titam et le Sirop d’Erable</a>. Photo credit Metropolitan Museum of Art.</p> <div class="feedflare"> <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/Neatorama?a=itWtun6v5aY:vaS5-CyPzSU:yIl2AUoC8zA"><img src="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/Neatorama?d=yIl2AUoC8zA" border="0"></img></a> </div>]]></content:encoded> <wfw:commentRss>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/10/would-this-16th-century-helmet-terrify-a-jousting-opponent/feed/</wfw:commentRss> <slash:comments>4</slash:comments> <feedburner:origLink>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/10/would-this-16th-century-helmet-terrify-a-jousting-opponent/</feedburner:origLink></item> <item> <title>Neatorama Update - November 2009</a></li><li><a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/1LKdbS7a00k/">Luxury Capsule Hotel</a></li><li><a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Neatorama/~3/efKYI-oDI20/">Man Impaled By Tree And Lives To Tell The Story</a></li></ul></div> <script> var ls=gebtn('a',gebi('ff-nor')); for(var i=0;i<ls.length;++i) ls[i].onclick=function(){if(typeof urchinTracker=='function')urchinTracker('/ff-redirect/nor/'+escape(this.href));} </script> <div class="panel lolite"><div class="title">Subscribe</div><div class="buffer"><a href="http://www.videosift.com/rss2/sifted.xml"> <img src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/feed.png" alt="" /> Sifted Videos</a></div><div class="buffer"><a href="http://www.videosift.com/rss2/unsifted.xml"> <img src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/feed.png" alt="" /> Unsifted Videos</a></div><div class="buffer"><a href="http://www.videosift.com/rss2/talk.xml"> <img src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/feed.png" alt="" /> Sift Talk Posts</a></div><div class="buffer"><a href="http://www.videosift.com/rss2/comments.xml"> <img src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/feed.png" alt="" /> All Member Comments</a></div><br/><div class="buffer"><a href="/video/What-is-this-RSS-Thing-and-How-Do-I-Use-It">» What is this RSS thing?</a></div></div><div class="panel lolite"><div class="title">Top 15 Sifters of All Time</div><div class="buffer"><div class="pad">1. <a href="http://zifnab.videosift.com" title="member since June 30th, 2006" class="profilelink"><strong style="color:#B22222">Zifnab</strong></a><a href="/faq-en.php#star_ratings"><img src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/stars/01000.png" class="star" title="Ranked #1 - 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There's a lot of great stuff here and it really is worth watching the whole debate - a lot of basic philosophy and logic is employed and it's fun to watch Slick get flustered. It's obvious that he has been able to fluster a good number of atheists with this schtick but Matt pins him down and it's great to watch him struggle as he gets caught a number of contradictions and logical fallacies. 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