I think I'll just link Maddox here, and leave it at that.

so jesse has decided to completely destroy any credibility he may have ever had.
for money.

With regards to the two morons above and anyone else who cares to be flippant and disparaging of the views expressed in this show. i would like to remind you that you are forgetting that there isn't a prime suspect in the 911 attack. If you think Usama Bin Laden is then you might care to check out the FBI most wanted list re Usama. 911 isn't mentioned in the list of offences he is responsible for. Why is that? Why is the person who, according to the official story, was the mastermind, not wanted for this crime?

There is clearly a consiparacy around 911 and while I don't pretend to know the truth I sure as heck don't believe for a minute that the official story is the true story.

Having said that I'm not a big fan of the format and overly dramatic styling he chooses to use.

Agreed, though I think it's more whoever is producing the show calling the shots on how the show should be presented, but it's pretty cheesy either way. Lets have an argument about going into the FBI office when we're already at the FBI office? A lot of this was set up to make it seem more dramatic, me thinks.

I take it you didn't read the citations at the bottom of the article?

I also take it that you didn't realize that nowhere in the article does Maddox even mention Osama bin Laden, nor him being "responsible" for the attacks. All he is doing is attacking the horrible presentation of so-called "evidence" that people tout as proof that there is a giant conspiracy surrounding 9/11. Even *I* don't believe Osama was directly responsible/the actual mastermind, though he clearly was the most visible figure promoting/taking credit for it. Is that reason to go after him? Fuck no. We already have the purported Al Qaeda "mastermind," who is in New York awaiting trial. My point is that a show like this DOESN'T HELP.

Glenn Beck was the one that posted the $20 bill-folding conspiracy that mentions Osama. Thanks for playing.

I'm no sheep, but I sure as fuck don't think that Jesse Ventura is on the right track with this show. Specially so long as he is going to take eyewitness accounts as evidence that something was covered up.

>> ^Fade:
With regards to the two morons above and anyone else who cares to be flippant and disparaging of the views expressed in this show. i would like to remind you that you are forgetting that there isn't a prime suspect in the 911 attack. If you think Usama Bin Laden is then you might care to check out the FBI most wanted list re Usama. 911 isn't mentioned in the list of offences he is responsible for. Why is that? Why is the person who, according to the official story, was the mastermind, not wanted for this crime?
There is clearly a consiparacy around 911 and while I don't pretend to know the truth I sure as heck don't believe for a minute that the official story is the true story.

"Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits . . ."

-- Tool, Aenema

While I am one to never believe anything my government tells me, I find it highly improbable that anybody but the 19 hijackers caused the events of September 11th. But to play devil's advocate, let me for a minute suspend my belief and agree with the "truthers" that my government perpetrated an act of terrorism against itself.

Why?

In order to invade Afghanistan to plunder its oil? We already had bin Laden on the FBI's Most Wanted List for the bombings of U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. We easily could have invaded under the pretense of finding and extracting bin Laden (and the Taliban and al-Qaeda), because that's exactly what we did after September 11th.

In order to invade Iraq under the banner of anti-terrorism? Hussein had already defied U.N. weapons inspectors for over a decade and Bush was never the type to ask permission, so we didn't need September 11th to justify illegally invading a sovereign nation. We did it anyway.

In order to enact greater restrictions upon the citizens by inducing their fear response? Hell, as a general populace we're lemmings. The Bush administration certainly did not need to kill 3000 people in order to take away our liberties. We gladly give them up whenever anybody in authority asks.

I have yet to hear a rational answer to the question of "Why?" But I'm all ears.

First of all, there is no need to call people morons just because you think their incredulity is disparaging.

--
bin Laden is not labeled the mastermind because that title would go to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Also, if you did some fact-finding you would have noticed that the FBI only places criminals charged by a prosecutor or indicted by a grand jury on their Most Wanted List. bin Laden was formally charged for the bombing of U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, but has not been formally charged with the acts of September 11th.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/27/AR2006082700687.html

>> ^Fade:
With regards to the two morons above and anyone else who cares to be flippant and disparaging of the views expressed in this show. i would like to remind you that you are forgetting that there isn't a prime suspect in the 911 attack. If you think Usama Bin Laden is then you might care to check out the FBI most wanted list re Usama. 911 isn't mentioned in the list of offences he is responsible for. Why is that? Why is the person who, according to the official story, was the mastermind, not wanted for this crime?
There is clearly a consiparacy around 911 and while I don't pretend to know the truth I sure as heck don't believe for a minute that the official story is the true story.

Appealing to Maddox as an authority of anything, let alone 9/11, is one of the best ways in the world to lose an argument before it's begun.

9/11 was an inside job. Evidence was destroyed, and Bush blocked the investigation at every turn.

>> ^HaricotVert:
I take it you didn't read the citations at the bottom of the article?
I also take it that you didn't realize that nowhere in the article does Maddox even mention Osama bin Laden, nor him being "responsible" for the attacks. All he is doing is attacking the horrible presentation of so-called "evidence" that people tout as proof that there is a giant conspiracy surrounding 9/11. Even I don't believe Osama was directly responsible/the actual mastermind, though he clearly was the most visible figure promoting/taking credit for it. Is that reason to go after him? Fuck no. We already have the purported Al Qaeda "mastermind," who is in New York awaiting trial. My point is that a show like this DOESN'T HELP.
Glenn Beck was the one that posted the $20 bill-folding conspiracy that mentions Osama. Thanks for playing.
I'm no sheep, but I sure as fuck don't think that Jesse Ventura is on the right track with this show. Specially so long as he is going to take eyewitness accounts as evidence that something was covered up.
>> ^Fade:
With regards to the two morons above and anyone else who cares to be flippant and disparaging of the views expressed in this show. i would like to remind you that you are forgetting that there isn't a prime suspect in the 911 attack. If you think Usama Bin Laden is then you might care to check out the FBI most wanted list re Usama. 911 isn't mentioned in the list of offences he is responsible for. Why is that? Why is the person who, according to the official story, was the mastermind, not wanted for this crime?
There is clearly a consiparacy around 911 and while I don't pretend to know the truth I sure as heck don't believe for a minute that the official story is the true story.



Um actually the FBI claims Usama is responsible. http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/watson020602.htm
Thanks for playing indeed.

So you don't trust Madox, but what do you think of the ideas he puts forward? If he's a douchebag who's correct, he's still correct.

I would like links to credible accounts of destroyed evidence and Bush blocking the investigation.

>> ^rougy:
Appealing to Maddox as an authority of anything, let alone 9/11, is one of the best ways in the world to lose an argument before it's begun.
9/11 was an inside job. Evidence was destroyed, and Bush blocked the investigation at every turn.

They can claim anything they want, but that is not enough for an indictment.

>> ^Fade:
Um actually the FBI claims Usama is responsible. http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/watson020602.htm
Thanks for playing indeed.

Make up your mind. You said in your first post that "911 isn't mentioned in the list of offences he is responsible for. Why is that?"

Now you say Osama IS responsible. Complete 180 of your original statement, no? I've highlighted your contradiction for easy reading.

>> ^Fade:
>> ^HaricotVert:
I take it you didn't read the citations at the bottom of the article?
I also take it that you didn't realize that nowhere in the article does Maddox even mention Osama bin Laden, nor him being "responsible" for the attacks. All he is doing is attacking the horrible presentation of so-called "evidence" that people tout as proof that there is a giant conspiracy surrounding 9/11. Even I don't believe Osama was directly responsible/the actual mastermind, though he clearly was the most visible figure promoting/taking credit for it. Is that reason to go after him? Fuck no. We already have the purported Al Qaeda "mastermind," who is in New York awaiting trial. My point is that a show like this DOESN'T HELP.
Glenn Beck was the one that posted the $20 bill-folding conspiracy that mentions Osama. Thanks for playing.
I'm no sheep, but I sure as fuck don't think that Jesse Ventura is on the right track with this show. Specially so long as he is going to take eyewitness accounts as evidence that something was covered up.
>> ^Fade:
With regards to the two morons above and anyone else who cares to be flippant and disparaging of the views expressed in this show. i would like to remind you that you are forgetting that there isn't a prime suspect in the 911 attack. If you think Usama Bin Laden is then you might care to check out the FBI most wanted list re Usama. 911 isn't mentioned in the list of offences he is responsible for. Why is that? Why is the person who, according to the official story, was the mastermind, not wanted for this crime?
There is clearly a consiparacy around 911 and while I don't pretend to know the truth I sure as heck don't believe for a minute that the official story is the true story.


Um actually the FBI claims Usama is responsible. http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/watson020602.htm
Thanks for playing indeed.

>> ^thinker247:
First of all, there is no need to call people morons just because you think their incredulity is disparaging.
</div></div></div>

But it's perfectly cool for jerks like Stukafox to continually call us who don't believe the "official story" idiots, morons, loons, dipshits, etc. Right? Personal attack are uncalled for, period. We believe what we believe. Get over it.

I agree this presentation was cheesy. It seemed Jesse was having a hard time keeping a straight face throughout the entire episode, which leads me to believe he's doing this for money,as the first poster stated, and doesn't really take stock in what he's presenting in his own show. The guy he interviewed at the beginning of the show had no credibility. I didn't believe a word he said.

Jesse standing outside that building with the "steel girder from the twin towers" inside it shouting "This is what they don't want me to see!!" <sigh> Sorry to tell ya Jesse, but if they didn't want you to see it, you wouldn't be standing there outside that door with a camera crew filming through the tiny slot of a window, that's a fact.

I don't like the assumption that those of us who don't entertain the selected Conspiracy Theories must then believe the "official story". I don't believe any investigation has yet brought to light everything nor do I think that having a bunch of them would clear it all up. This is an extremely complex world event and people are going to disagree on it no doubt. There is more than two sides to this story.

>> ^thinker247:
While I am one to never believe anything my government tells me, I find it highly improbable that anybody but the 19 hijackers caused the events of September 11th. But to play devil's advocate, let me for a minute suspend my belief and agree with the "truthers" that my government perpetrated an act of terrorism against itself.
Why?
In order to invade Afghanistan to plunder its oil? We already had bin Laden on the FBI's Most Wanted List for the bombings of U.S. Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. We easily could have invaded under the pretense of finding and extracting bin Laden (and the Taliban and al-Qaeda), because that's exactly what we did after September 11th.
In order to invade Iraq under the banner of anti-terrorism? Hussein had already defied U.N. weapons inspectors for over a decade and Bush was never the type to ask permission, so we didn't need September 11th to justify illegally invading a sovereign nation. We did it anyway.
In order to enact greater restrictions upon the citizens by inducing their fear response? Hell, as a general populace we're lemmings. The Bush administration certainly did not need to kill 3000 people in order to take away our liberties. We gladly give them up whenever anybody in authority asks.
I have yet to hear a rational answer to the question of "Why?" But I'm all ears.


niiiice.
ask a question and then propose possible hypothesis which of course you then dismantle.
let me preface this by stating i am not a "truther" and am not as convinced as my friend rougy is concerning 9/11.
that being said,the US government has never,in my opinion,given this a proper investigation.
let me give you an example:
lewinsky and the impeachment of bill clinton =168 million dollars.
9/11 investigation=6 million dollars
and lets be clear here.the governments version of what happened on 9/11 is itself a conspiracy theory and one that does not hold up well under closer scrutiny.
who is responsible? i do not know and neither do you but i think it prudent to not only ask questions but be allowed to ask those questions.
agree?
now...
as for YOUR question thinker247.
why?
i presume you are asking for motive.
ok.
1.lusitania
2.reichsthag
3.gulf of tonkin
these are all false flag operations and all preceded war.WW!,WW2 and vietnam respectively.i could mention the oil embargo on japan but that is a lengthy conversation.
what ARE the motives for war?
they have always been unequivocally about:
1.land/labor/resources/trade
how does a government,crown or ruling entity get its poorest,least educated and therefore most expendable to go fight and die for something the ruling class wishes?
1.propaganda.
which creates a "fighting spirit".
for thousands of years religion was the impetus to create this spirit but for the last hundred years it has been nationalism but it is ALWAYS the F>E>A>R that is the true driving force.
now that we have established a basis for war let us get to the heart of your question.
since i am not privy to secret documents i must make my answer based on conjecture.i shall do my best.
why would the US government use 9/11 (by action or by proxy) to change 200 years of national defensive posturing to one of "pre-emptive" and declare a war,not on any person or nation but one against an ephemeral opponent?the "war on terror".
1.war is HUGE business and the DOD has been one of the top 10 lobbyists since 1962.
2.saddam hussein,having been bombed for over 10 years straight(fact,look it up) along with sanctions and that ridiculous "oil for food" threatened to change iraq's oil transactions from the american dollar to the euro(fact,look it up)which would have cost the US billions if not trillions.seeing that every oil transaction is done in american dollars.it is the world reserve currency (not for much longer).
3.uzbekisthan has one the last and richest oil and natural gas left in the world.a pipeline which was denied by turkey (that has since changed,but for europes benefit,not america) is being built right now...
where?
ill give ya a guess.
iraq.
and do you know where it will lead into?
want to try another guess?
afghanistan.

those are just a few off the top of my head.i could take the time to be more concise and specific but this is a comment section.
maybe we have differing political philosophies thinker247.i do not trust government nor power because that power historically has ALWAYS attempted to garner more power for itself at the expense of liberty,freedom and the common good of society.
so while i dont think the US government attacked the twin towers,i believe they ALLOWED it.
what evidence do i have? none.and any evidence we could have gotten has been destroyed.
but i was military for a number of years and unless they have gotten lazy and stupid there is no way that would have happened.
could i be wrong?you betcha.
but unlike you i do not trust government and neither should you because historically,governments will abuse whatever powers they have and take your rights away as fast as they are allowed to.
might i recommend:
1.bryzinski "the grand chessboard"
2.naomi klein "the shock doctrine"
3.chalmers johnson "blowback"
hell...just go the PNAC website they practically lay it out for you and that minority controlled the government for 8 years.
history is the greatest teacher and it is your friend.
i have enjoyed this conversation thinker247.

This article debunks Jesse Ventura's conspiracy theory about 9/11
http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/op-ed/911-truth-conspiracy-theory/