Maher,Real Time,Bill,Frist,vaccines,medicine,healthcare,reform,swine,flu Bill Maher Gets Schooled On Vaccines By Bill Frist
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1 month 2 weeks ago • 3123 viewstags: Maher, Real Time, Bill, Frist, vaccines, medicine, healthcare, reform, swine, flu
Bill Frist "Look at the science."
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Reason verses the Brick Wall of Ignorance, round one: FIGHT.
As a side-note, I don't get to watch any Real Time, aside from clips here on the Sift and on YouTube. Tell me, did he mention anything at all about this: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/09/28/australia-homeopathy-manslaughter.html
Because I'd love to know his thoughts on it.
Anyway, my trust issue isn't really 'trust of the Government', It's trust that the Government couldn't be manipulated by corporate interests (eg. Donald Rumsfeld). That being said, science is science so I'll side with the verified facts if you give them to me.
I'm really rooting for the conservatives to pull their act together, dump their extremists, and join the good fight in doing proper checks-and-balances with the dems so we can all act like adults again.
This was a nice step.
In case you do not know who Bill Frist is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frist
People really watch this douch bag? Why does he not let the man finishing speaking? Bill Mahar flaps his lips over and over again, but keeps interrupting the Bill Frist.
This idiot tells Bill Frist that they disagree... Like Bill Frist give a shit what this TV monkey thinks about?
*quality
Where's the clip of Bill Maher bitching that all we do is treat symptoms in this country and not engage in preventative medicine? I like Bill Maher, but what a hypocrite, it was like shades of Rush Limbaugh there complete with a ventriloquism act involving his ass. Way to pseudo science there Bill.
How is it hypocritical to say we treat symptoms as they pop up rather than care too much about public health as a whole. I don't see how that can be interpreted as a hypocritical statement, unless he himself can be proven to only treat symptoms or something.
I think the reason that many geeky type people always toe the main-stream medical line is because they conflate medicine with science (which we all love). Yes, it's almost the same, but if I had to draw it as a venn diagram, there would be a crescent of over-hang. Medicine to me is 80% science and then the rest is filled in with dogma, patriarchy and business ($$).
That crescent of non-science is the part that makes me squirm. I don't think it's that wrong to question medical programs like vaccinations- with the idea that it may be being pushed non-scientifically by the medical industrial complex. (big pharma).
Bill Maher is not a kook.
^Yes, how dare anyone question the all-knowing oracles of medical knowledge.
I think the reason that many geeky type people always toe the main-stream medical line is because they conflate medicine with science (which we all love). Yes, it's almost the same, but if I had to draw it as a venn diagram, there would be a crescent of over-hang. Medicine to me is 80% science and then the rest is filled in with dogma, patriarchy and business ($$).
That crescent of non-science is the part that makes me squirm. I don't think it's that wrong to question medical programs like vaccinations- with the idea that it may be being pushed non-scientifically by the medical industrial complex. (big pharma).
I'm with you, Dag, on most of those points. Questioning things is what makes someone a skeptic to begin with, and you could apply that Venn Diagram to almost any (if not all) avenues of science. Scientists need funding, and not all are unbiased in their pursuit of knowledge. Please, question "the all-knowing oracles of medical knowledge" until you're blue in the face, but make sure that when you're done you've seen, understood, and accepted the evidence and the facts. Not testimonials and anecdotes. Maher did bring up that Frist used an anecdote, however I'm confident Maher fails to realize that the entire "alternative medicine" movement is based on anecdotes and the placebo effect.
Bill Maher is not a kook.
^And there is where we disagree on the subject of medicine and Mr. Maher. He is plainly a kook when it comes to such a serious subject as this, because he employs the exact same tactics as those religious kooks he fights against. If I could send him an amazing book I own called "Snake Oil Science: The Truth About Complementary and Alternative Medicine" what do you think the chances are he'd read it? And if he defied logic and actually read it, would his mindset allow him to see the truth, based on research and evidence into these sorts of things?
He reminds me of my mother. She's not "spiritual", but she believes almost entirely in "alternative treatments". She once argued with me to get off of my insulin treatment for Diabetes and seek an Acupuncture and more "natural" route to cure it. I calmly told her to look into these things from unbiased sources.
I lent her that book.
She threw it at me.
I love hearing a rational conservative talk (especially on health care). The United States needs two healthy parties.
I'm really rooting for the conservatives to pull their act together, dump their extremists, and join the good fight in doing proper checks-and-balances with the dems so we can all act like adults again.
This was a nice step.
ABSOLUTELY. I couldn't agree more, rational and measured debate is some of the most invigorating and empowering stuff in politics. We should see more.
Also, Frist made a VERY good point about not broadcasting to pregnant women not to get the vaccine... it will literally kill them not to get it. Bill is very very wrong, wantonly wrong, and aggressively ignorant about this issue.
How is it hypocritical to say we treat symptoms as they pop up rather than care too much about public health as a whole. I don't see how that can be interpreted as a hypocritical statement, unless he himself can be proven to only treat symptoms or something.
It's not hypocritical to say we treat symptoms. Its hypocritical to advocate we focus more on preventative medicine and then run the fear monger campaign against vaccine on what so far what seems to be baseless conjecture and a poor understanding of evolution.
^Yes, how dare anyone question the all-knowing oracles of medical knowledge.
I think the reason that many geeky type people always toe the main-stream medical line is because they conflate medicine with science (which we all love). Yes, it's almost the same, but if I had to draw it as a venn diagram, there would be a crescent of over-hang. Medicine to me is 80% science and then the rest is filled in with dogma, patriarchy and business ($$).
That crescent of non-science is the part that makes me squirm. I don't think it's that wrong to question medical programs like vaccinations- with the idea that it may be being pushed non-scientifically by the medical industrial complex. (big pharma).
Bill Maher is not a kook.
As Raigen said, in this instance Bill is being a kook. Yes, we need to question everything, especially medicine. But at the end of the day one has to look at the science behind the medicine and make an informed decision. The science, as Frist said, shows that vaccines work and will save your life.
I think it's really funny how, in the last few years, people have begun to fear and distrust vaccines. Smallpox, a disease that killed 300-500 million people in the 20th century alone, was eradicated thanks to vaccines. Thanks to vaccination the occurrence of Polio went from 350,000 cases in 1988 to 1300 cases in 2007.
Vaccines work, ignoring the science kills people. Bill Maher ignores the science. In this instance he is a dangerous kook.
My god what a douche, luddite, and a hypocrite.
"Luddite" isn't an insult from my perspective, and has nothing to do with denying the results of scientific research.
It is disheartening to see Maher so off the mark in this case. Atheism isn't just giving up religion, it's giving up dogmatic thought. I'd even say that the latter is more important than the former.
"In 1976, there was a small risk of GBS following influenza (swine flu) vaccination (approximately 1 additional case per 100,000 people who received the swine flu vaccine). That number of GBS cases was slightly higher than what is normally seen in the population, whether or not people were vaccinated. Since then, numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines were associated with GBS. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine. FDA and CDC will be closely monitoring reports of serious problems following the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines, including GBS."
Maybe he's reasonable in questioning the many biases (social, governmental, corporate, etc.) that can influence the adoption of particular vaccines, but it's easy to handwave and fingerpoint without examining any clinical data, the kind of stuff Maher clearly hasn't even farted in the direction of much less mulled over himself.
Also Frist is delusional if he thinks the US has the best healthcare in the world. Then again, this is the same asshole who gave a completely incorrect, uninformed opinion on Schiavo's PVS based on an hour or two of video footage of her.
Damn I want to just sucker punch him over this. Next he will be telling how differential calculus works as a mechanism of goat fucking and what dark matter is all through simple mind experiments, and then he'll have to leave it there.
^ ^
Actually likes Bill Maher but this was aweful....
That's why I love the sift. We can love and hate our political commentators/figures at the same time. Frist is not perfect, he has his own issues (Terry Schiavo, anyone?) but Maher is wrong on this issue, imo. Frist makes a good argument, and it isn't a shouting match.
This is just what I was thinking.
Still, I wish I knew what to think about this. I normally lean towards not bothering with a flu shot, but I heard on NPR yesterday that 40% of the people being hospitalized for swine flu had no pre-existing conditions.
I have seen someone get extremely ill after getting a flu shot though, and even though I know that it's unlikely, it still comes to mind every time I think about vaccinations.
It is true there is a business side to medicine, but no one controls science. And in the rare instances that science has been influenced by business, it has always corrected itself. (e.g. Some poor graduate student spent 2 years trying to confirm single molecule transistors and never got it to work. The original data was eventually proven fraudulent. See Jan Schon) Since their conception in 1796, vaccines have proven to a be a valuable way to control the spread of viruses.
In conclusion, it is good to question science and medicine. Questions, however, need to be reinforced with controlled scientific experiments, otherwise they are out of ignorance.
>> ^dag:
^Yes, how dare anyone question the all-knowing oracles of medical knowledge.
I think the reason that many geeky type people always toe the main-stream medical line is because they conflate medicine with science (which we all love). Yes, it's almost the same, but if I had to draw it as a venn diagram, there would be a crescent of over-hang. Medicine to me is 80% science and then the rest is filled in with dogma, patriarchy and business ($$).
That crescent of non-science is the part that makes me squirm. I don't think it's that wrong to question medical programs like vaccinations- with the idea that it may be being pushed non-scientifically by the medical industrial complex. (big pharma).
Bill Maher is not a kook.
I really don't have any patience with people who are against vaccinations in any form. You make my life miserable as it is, and mean that I have to jump through 25 extra hoops.
LOL @ swine flu vaccine keeping me alive, you're a real sucker !!! drink it up, dude, enjoy that vaccine it was MADE FOR people like YOU ! We'll take our chances with diseases and our immune systems in my house. ( and we've already done the swine flu anyway )
p.s. people usually live to be about 85 in my family and 90 in my wifes family and most of them dont take any of your "life extending" pharmaceuticals at all.
So remember kiddies, eat those pills, drink those cocktails, accept your injections! The medical industry may be wholly profit driven on your symptoms and despair, but you can rest easy they're doing the best they can for their stockholders.
Operative word there: "Choose".
I'm a diabetic with a compromised immune system, and if medical science has developed a vaccine that can help minimize any risk of me catching any sort of flu, or ailment, sign me up. Right now I'm knee-deep in a cold that just hit me like a ton of bricks today at work (happens like that, and I hate it) and I'm a little worried because I can't really afford to be sick right now, and most of the cold/flu remedies at the local pharmacy are rather bad for diabetics to take.
Why so worried? I start a new, very high-profile job at the company I work for on Monday. Week one is Quality Assurance and Food Safety Supervisor Training. Showing up with a cold for that... Not a good idea.
He is giving an opinion on his show that could kill people.
His opinion isn't going to kill anyone and you ought not to be fear mongering. Just because someone is wrong doesn't mean they should be kept from voicing their opinion.
Some people might take Bill's stance as their own and not get vaccinated. A fraction of those people might get sick with the flu. A fraction of that fraction might become seriously ill and even die as a result. That is still their own fault for taking medical advice from a comedian.
For my part, I won't be getting vaccinated. It's not that I don't believe they work or any such thing, I just tend to respond badly to a lot of medicines and the like and so I take as few of them as I can. I am more likely to take a nap than an aspirin for a headache. I will let my immune system do its thing and if that's not enough, so be it. Natural selection... if I can't hack it then I don't deserve to be here.