Per the results of this abortion of a poll, we are offering to reinstate Choggie to his old account.
Because he has caused some real hurt to many Sifters, mainly in private comments, we are setting up a custom hobbled status for his return that is the virtual equivalent of something like this:
Choggie will be artificially maintained at a "P" status and hobbled for the foreseeable future.
Siftbot save us all.
Because he has caused some real hurt to many Sifters, mainly in private comments, we are setting up a custom hobbled status for his return that is the virtual equivalent of something like this:
Choggie will be artificially maintained at a "P" status and hobbled for the foreseeable future.
Siftbot save us all.
i am not joking. i want to see them back.
I hope choggie will see this as a gesture of goodwill and will behave here in the future. If he does not, the ban is not far behind... again.
Blankfist, that was exactly the kind of thing I wanted to avoid, which is why I tried to kill the poll. I have not been involved in all the things that happened behind the scenes, so I don't think it's fair to punish me for whatever he has done. I only have knowledge of what has happened plainly on the site and I think he did less "bad" than captainplanet420, to take an example. My view can certainly be misguided, I won't deny that, but I did the poll in the best intentions.. and killed it when people started harassing me about it.
I hate drama, but it seems to surround me lately. That'll learn me for putting my junk into a hornet's nest.
Although he still seems to be banned. Maybe he's gotten himself re-banned in the four hours since this was posted.
As a personal note, I have always enjoyed choggie, except for the times that he was extraordinarily cruel to my Sift brethren. I have always had a problem with some of his behavior, but I enjoy his presence and sometimes find his madness refreshing and enriching. Some of this madness could be mistaken for truth, as is often the case with madness.
So Choggie, welcome back. CatHat will hold you to the highest possible standard. I know you think your job is to open minds, but be gentle because minds are fragile things and don't take well to being forced. You have the ability to be very kind, too. Bring the challenge, but please do it as lovingly as you can.
After all the hand-wringing and wingeing, that would blow my irony meter right the fuck up.
Choggs, WELCOME BACK!
I always love reading the "do your best impression of choggie" posts. Some people just grasp it so well.
I think what we should do to hobble him is take away his "," key. He, will never, ever, be able, to make a, statement, nor survive for, very long, without it. <dramatic pause>
blankfist: you make it sound like the antichrist himself is coming to the sift to fuck with us. an important part of sift's history has been reinstated – this is a time for celebration, not despair and fear mongering. I don't always like your fucking attitude either but I keep quiet about it cause you post such quality videos. so, how about a big cup of stfu and a big welcome to choggie
No need to be rude. You got your precious unapologetic blathering messiah back.
Except for Gwiz.
So, I have some VideoSift civics questions for you, dag.
In the real world, a common requirement is that the criminal in question expresses remorse for their actions, and asks forgiveness. Or there's a political need to make peace (e.g. pardons for the architects of the Whiskey Rebellion, or the Confederate soldiers after the Civil War). Or it's done to cover the ass of a political crony. This case involves none of those things, so what exactly is the reasoning?
I look forward to your answers.
I'm just looking forward to his weekly wiz in the cup.
I hope you do come back, Choggie. And in my optimistic, story-book-ridden view of the universe, I hope you have a word of apology and intention to earn a more normalized sift-citizenship.
When choggie does any of that, let me know.
Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?
It was his own popularity that sparked a poll in which a large number of people voted to have him pardoned, so you can only pin that one on Dag if you see the site's rules as being a strict law that should always be adhered to.
However, Dag's made it clear that this site's run with a more human element at times, where we ourselves help shape the site. Considering that element, what we have here is a rule being bent because part of the community here requested it. So yes, in essence the answer to that is popularity does seem to have an effect here.
It's simply the nature of how this place works.
But... I'm not passing any form of judgement on this, so if it sounds negative.. it's actually somewhere between pro and neutral. It seems that another reason all of this is happening is there's some bad blood between two parties, and one party saw this pole created by the other party and wants that party to now take responsibility for creating the pole.
What I'm saying is, I'm not sure Chogie would have been pardoned if it was me or rottenseed or etc. who started the poll. I could be wrong, but there's some hint of that in the posts I've read.
I'm just bringing this up now so later down the line if a shitstorm erupts from all of this it doesn't turn into a conspiracy, 'AMG U MEAN DAG JUST BROUGHT CHOGIE BAK 2 GET AT GWIZ?!!". Hope everyone catches what I'm saying.
I personally have no problems with Gwiz, but I didn't like seeing him try to get out of the poll he created. If you're gonna bring up something controversial, then fasten your seat belt for where ever it may lead. That includes me hitting submit right about... now.
And kulpims, I don't always like blankfist's attitude either, but then he never repeatedly discarded videos wrongfully, now did he? Do you think everyone should be popping open champagne bottles after all the shit he pulled here? Maybe you should STFU and learn a little empathy.
If I go on a downvote spree and start discarding videos, does that make me a genius with a beautiful mind?
Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?
(...)
Is there any guarantee of protection from harassment on VideoSift at all, or is that contingent on popular vote?
It has been made unequivocally clear many times that this place is an experiment in absolute democracy. This means that every court decision is decided by popular vote, and can also be overturned by popular vote. As such, popularity is very much part of the current justice system. What this system lacks, as opposed to every functioning modern democracy, is the concept of separation of powers. It was this flaw that I wanted to take steps to correct with this poll, but alas, that attempt stranded despite a lot of good ideas emerging from the ensuing discussion.
I logged in here a bit ago because two videos were just posted on YouTube that are worth sifting, but I find myself not caring at the moment. If anyone wants a couple of good science vids on dosage and risk as it relates to vaccines parts 1 and 2 are at the following links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKujq-TcJLM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHwmzCr_0o
Later.
When Choggie June publicly shows some remorse for all the actions that led to his banishment (and not by proxy via his sift chums), then maybe the healing can begin. Until then, he's the same old mean-spirited choggie to me.
And kulpims, I don't always like blankfist's attitude either, but then he never repeatedly discarded videos wrongfully, now did he? Do you think everyone should be popping open champagne bottles after all the shit he pulled here? Maybe you should STFU and learn a little empathy.
If I go on a downvote spree and start discarding videos, does that make me a genius with a beautiful mind?
http://wildwestshow.videosift.com/talk/Thanks-Apologies-A-Gravity
I had hoped that someone who cared much more about the choggie case had made a new poll, now that we had many more facts about the case, but everyone seemed adamant that because the poll was more to the "Yes" side, that my poll had to be resurrected. And even when it had been killed, which should have halted the process, but oh no, the result was used anyway. And now all of us are knee deep in the shit. We can't redo the poll now, we can't magically go back in time and let it run its course, and we can't just pretend it never happened. I rashly discarded my post, but I didn't enforce its aborted outcome, as it was so eloquently put.
If dag feels the need to passive-aggressively ridicule me in public, so be it, but I hope you all see it for what it is.
You're alright in my book, drax.
>> ^Drax:
But... I'm not passing any form of judgement on this, so if it sounds negative.. it's actually somewhere between pro and neutral. It seems that another reason all of this is happening is there's some bad blood between two parties, and one party saw this pole created by the other party and wants that party to now take responsibility for creating the pole.
What I'm saying is, I'm not sure Chogie would have been pardoned if it was me or rottenseed or etc. who started the poll. I could be wrong, but there's some hint of that in the posts I've read.
I'm just bringing this up now so later down the line if a shitstorm erupts from all of this it doesn't turn into a conspiracy, 'AMG U MEAN DAG JUST BROUGHT CHOGIE BAK 2 GET AT GWIZ?!!". Hope everyone catches what I'm saying.
I personally have no problems with Gwiz, but I didn't like seeing him try to get out of the poll he created. If you're gonna bring up something controversial, then fasten your seat belt for where ever it may lead. That includes me hitting submit right about... now.
And I work as an auditor, so we hear some surprisingly trippy things on a daily basis.
# What purpose are the rules supposed to serve? Protection of the community? A declaration that the community demands adherence to some sort of basic standard of moral behavior? Decoration?
The rules are "guidelines" - we didn't call them that by accident. They are there to serve as a guide. To protect the community, yes- but also to empower it, shape it and strengthen it.
# Are the rules applicable to everyone equally, or do people with a greater degree of popularity get exempted from them?
The guidelines are applicable to everyone equally. I'll assume that you're referencing our reinstatement of Choggie here- Choggie was reinstated because a majority of the participating community indicated that this is what they want. I acted on this- mindful that Choggie did real hurt to a minority of the community and put in safeguards to ensure this hurt would be minimized. FTR our guidelines do not say that all bans are permanent forever and ever, amen. I do believe in second chances.
# Once someone has been banned for a violation of the rules, what are the criteria for pardoning them?
We don't have a constitution, and I feel that you're writing in those terms. In this particular case- the criteria was that the community indicated this was their preference, to overturn the ban, and I was agreeable to it - with the provisos included.
In the real world, a common requirement is that the criminal in question expresses remorse for their actions, and asks forgiveness. Or there's a political need to make peace (e.g. pardons for the architects of the Whiskey Rebellion, or the Confederate soldiers after the Civil War). Or it's done to cover the ass of a political crony. This case involves none of those things, so what exactly is the reasoning?
See the above answer.
# What rights do victims have? Must they constantly fight to maintain a negative popular opinion for their attackers in order to maintain justice? What about privacy? Must they air dirty laundry to constantly keep it in the minds of people, lest their abuser's transgressions be forgotten?
I would expect any grievances to be provided privately to me.
# What representation is given to people who left the community, never to return, because of the abuser's actions?
I'm not sure what you mean by representation here - or what you would expect for this.
# Is there any guarantee of protection from harassment on VideoSift at all, or is that contingent on popular vote?
Like the rest of the Internet- no there is no absolute guarantee of harassment protection for anyone. For Choggie- we have removed the tools of private harassment- any public harassment would be swiftly dealt with. Choggie knows this.
# If all rules can be waived by popular vote, what are the mechanics of how that works? Normally polls are open for 72 hours before a conclusion, why wasn't this one? Does the person making the proposition poll have the right to rescind the request (as happened with this one)? If they're binding, even when the request is controversial and ill-advised, can we make a fucking health channel already?
Guidelines may be waived by popular vote- I'll have the final say on this, but would definitely take it into strong consideration. Nothing is binding, the rules are guidelines. We are not a constitutional republic- this is a web community- a very good one.
I love how you're making him wear a scarlet letter, yet I think there's more to be done to ridicule him in public. As it is now, there's still a slight chance he might actually return under these restrictions.
So, he's wearing a letter "B"?