On principle I don't think that lying to children is a good thing, but there is such a thing as letting children be children. There is no reason to shatter their dreams and fantasies too early as long as they are not dangerous.

thats religious pre-conditioning, Santa and the rest of the bunch e.g. tooth fairies, elfs etc. supposed to teach us how to believe in things that don't exist. even worse, teaching us how not to face the facts of life. I think it's stupid, harmful and should be banned all together. oh, yeah, and I fucking hate xmas

Well I'm an atheist but I was raised believing in Santa Claus. I think the main thing is that my parents continued to give me gifts from "Santa". It kind of made the point that it's not about real or not real, it's just about the experience and excitement and tradition of it all.

This is a fine response:

http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

name one benefit.

like a lot of traditions, most never really examine it, ask why, and simply refuse.
you'll hear "oh, what's the harm?" but rarely "what's the benefit?"

why lie to kids about anything?
i grew up pissed at my parents for all the lies they told me.

so, seriously. if anyone can name a single benefit to lying about santa claus, i'm all ears.

I was just thinking about this. Found out I was pregnant just in time for Christmas. I don't think I'm going to tell my kid any of it, no Santa, no Jesus. Just family, good food and presents. That's all it is for my family, anyway. Santa never featured at all in any of our celebrations. Neither did Jesus, for that matter.

You try telling a kid from the day they're old enough to understand that Father Christmas is bullshit and see what happens. They'll cry that everyone else gets presents from Santa that they don't, they'll tell all the other kids he's not real and ruin the fantasy for them and livid parents will ensure you never hear the end of it and that your kid is a bastard who will never be invited to parties again.

Basically, I hate christmas too, I really fucking despise it. But it is magical for kids, and it is something that they have that is just about being a child, being able to believe in something like that is such a sign of innocence, and that shouldn't be taken away from them. If it was going to damage them i'm sure we'd have heard more about it. Never heard of a kid needing therapy because he has deep rooted trust issues. It's almost like, when you tell them they understand why. Because it's fun for them as long as it lasts.

Oh, and the most important reason to lie to your kids about Santa. Bribery - the handiest tool a parent has!

Merry bloody Christmas all

a myth isn't a lie. You could say that every movie is a lie, every story in a book is a lie. Do you do that? No. If it is a lie it a special kind of lie - the lies we HAVE to tell our selves in order to live.

The person who thinks he doesn't tell himself any liss is the one bonkers.
Society must have it's illusions. The relationship of illusion to our mind is like air to our bodies, utterly necessary yet so obvious people forget it's there.



The Cultivation of Christmas Trees

There are several attitudes towards Christmas,
Some of which we may disregard:
The social, the torpid, the patently commercial,
The rowdy (the pubs being open till midnight),
And the childish - which is not that of the child
For whom the candle is a star, and the gilded angel
Spreading its wings at the summit of the tree
Is not only a decoration, but an angel.
...


-T.S.Eliot, 1954

Lie, fiction, potayto potahto. While my earlier comment stands, I would probably reveal the truth that the stories are just that stories of fiction, when I thought the kid was ready. The real solution is probably just not adressing it and actively tell your kid at any point "santa is totally real". You don't have to lie directly to your kid, but you can let him or her stay with her illusions for a while.

While I don't want children myself, and being atheist, I have thought about this conundrum. I was raised believing in Santa Claus, and came to the realization on my own that he did not exist. I didn't harbour ill-will towards my parents for pertpetuating the lie throughout my childhood either (I harbour enough ill-will towards them anyways for other crap ).

I thought that it would be a good lesson in critical-thinking skills. That is, if they could come to the conclusion as I did. Though I'd nurse those skills as they grew up, and when they questioned things about Santa (as I'd hope they would) I'd answer truthfull and honestly, using as much explaination as necessary.

I would also use the experience to teach them about the lies and trickery used in other aspects of life, such as Religion, and how it is used to control and deceive children into believing all kinds of nonsense. With these new-found tools and examples, I'd hope to instill a harder outlook on society and reality with battle-tested critical thinking capabilities.

But, then again, I decided that children are a waste of my time and resources, so I won't ever get to try that particular experiment. (With good reason, I'd probably spend most of the time doing social experiments on my child while raising them.)

Answering the question morally, children are germinal entities gradually shaping themselves into men. The responsibility of a parent is to help or leave them to it. Blanket prohibitions against fraud needn't be applied to a child young enough to believe in Santa Claus, as their consciousness hasn't expanded into development of full human rights. Deception may be applied legitimately to benefit the child's education, such as in Raigen's critical thinking exercise.

I doubt anyone here has the data or the expertise to know which path would be most beneficial. In the absence of a definitive answer to the problem, probably do what you like as long as you do it for the right reason.

Lighten up guys... its all in fun! Deep down my kids don't really believe in Santa.. but they're children.. and fantasy is part of the fun of being a kid.

We still play Santa, and I think we always will. I love the idea of Santa still and I'm 40 years old.

Telling your kids Santa is real is cool in my book.

>> ^alien_concept:
You try telling a kid from the day they're old enough to understand that Father Christmas is bullshit and see what happens. They'll cry that everyone else gets presents from Santa that they don't, they'll tell all the other kids he's not real and ruin the fantasy for them and livid parents will ensure you never hear the end of it and that your kid is a bastard who will never be invited to parties again.


Oh, horsecrap

I've got two kids, one 21 years old now and the other 16, been there and done that and it didn't turn out a thing like that. I never lied to them and as far as I know they never blew it for kids who did believe. They were never deprived of presents or anything either, I'm not sure how knowing the difference between real or not implies that they can't participate in the celebration anyway. We always did.

When they were little we never brought it up, they decided on their own that they had doubts and when they asked we told them the truth and told them that they shouldn't ruin it for those who did believe. Same with religion, we aren't a religious family but you won't find us in anyone else's face about it unless it's in self defense. Start preaching at and judging us and they might wish they hadn't but we aren't out to convert the world. Just to be left alone.

The outcome will always depend on the individuals involved and the approach, it's not a simple "this way is good and the other bad" issue. Both can turn out just fine.

^ I totally agree, I just chose an option and ran with a reason As much as I think it's a nice thing to have this story in their lives, I really don't see it as a problem if they don't. Really, millions of children must not believe, and i've never heard of anyone telling my kids that he isn't real, or indeed whether they'd care if he wasn't. My eldest worked it out last year, and now she just thinks it's cute her brother still thinks it's true!

I told my kids that there was a santa claus but quantumushroom killed him.

Young kids believe everything that adults tell them.

The more magical you can make your kids' childhoods the better. That means santa, fairies, magic beans, flying cars and whatever else you can dream up.

When they get older and figure it out for themselves, the slight distress that it causes is actually *good* for your child.

Children need to be in contact with the options, not dream with a void or unidimensionalized mind filled with "dream inducers". The kid sitting in the bus, staring epicly through the window into towers of Berlin, didn't need these "stories" to be dreamy. I'd tell'em what they'd never hear outside: reality.

Children make their options confronting them with those they know are possible. They may be told anything (ellusive and narrowminded topics as well as rational ones) but only conceptualzie what they're capable of and also the only way they can. No harm in being true or correct when speaking to a kid about any given situation. Even when you explain what lightnings are scientifically,it may remain a sort of fireworks to the kid.

Speaking of science, some of the coolest memories I cherish to this day, is my amazement with all the half-uncompreehensible things family-adults of the time talked about while trying to include us kids on the conversation.

If kids needed these stories to dream, we should be questioning ourselves if the only reason why they animate those actionman and GIJOE dolls (whatever they play with nowadays) is because they heard about this episode about the Resurrection...

2 things:

1) Adults severely underestimate childrens' capacity for fantasy, and ability to separate fantasy from reality. I watched Transformers as a kid but i never ever ever ever believed they were technologically possible to build. I didn't care, because I was a kid, and Transformers were cool.

2) Realising that authority figures lie to you is a lesson I am glad I learned young. I remember distinctly when I found out about Santa aged 4... and what did I do? I pretended to be upset so they would buy me more presents. It worked. HA!

my 3 yr old seems quite skeptical of Santa and his magical powers as she questioned how Santa gets into houses with no fireplaces, how he gets all around the world in one night, or how he got into our house when she knows there is a cover at the top of the chimney to protect it from rainwater. While I personally don't want to encourage the Santa lie(myth), the wife see's no problem in it, so I told my daughter those were good questions and asked her questions back to her to answer what she thought. In the end I told her i didn't know but that her reasoning sounded plausible. My wife would say "it's magic"

I try to raise my kid to question things (how they work and why) and be skeptical and inquisitive. I think she'll apply those skills in time to the mythology that we pass onto our kids as truth (Santa, Easter Bunny). Part of my fear is that since kids are so easily indoctrinated and I don't want her buying into the mythology that is religion (I'm hopefully preparing her critical thinking for when her grandparents try to push their belief of their god and magical jesus on her - when I'm not around)

None of this has squelched her creativity or imagination as she plays and talks about unicorns, pegasus's, fairies, monsters, etc... all the while knowing those are all imaginary things. It's kind of like giving her the knowledge that santa isn't real without telling her directly.

In the end every parent deals with it differently and there is no right or wrong way.

two other thoughts.
When my kid does figure it out I'll need to have a talk with her about how she shares that information with other kids, as some parents would not appreciate other kids telling their kids Santa is a lie. It could be like the Matrix effect. She tells a kid Santa is a lie and the kid can't handle the truth and has a breakdown :-)
also, parents pick and choose which myths to propagate as real. What parent doesn't tell their kid that the monsters under their bed aren't real or imaginary?? what kind of parents let their kids believe in trolls, devils and demons ??? Oh, wait, ooops never mind.

I think I'm staying quite on topic with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lies_to_Tell_Small_Kids

-wine makes mummy clever
-its unlucky not to name every ant you see for your whole life
-milk feels pain
-strictly speaking,the tomato is not a vegetable it really is a type of dolphin
-1 in 10 fish are afraid of water
-mice collect your dandruff and eat it as cornflakes
-squares have a secret 5th side that you will only see if you stare at for a very long time
-mugs are just cups who have been to the gym
-they say no 2 snowflakes are the same but who's ever checked? i'll give you £100 if you find a matching pair

Now, whatever you do, DO NOT Google the name of the book with "+pdf" attached to the query. It's a great book that you should buy (really - I did).

^that list was hilarious. I need to try those on my kids and see what they say / do.