Comments for "Hooray! USA Income taxes are voluntary!" Video at VideoSift.com

By Kreegath

Kreegath (http://www.videosift.com/member/Kreegath) — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:29:16 -0700

Eating is a voluntary sustenance system.
How Harry Reid argues kind of feels like how the mafia would argue. You could voluntarily choose to pay the protection money, or you could voluntarily choose to get your kneecaps smashed to jelly.
It would've been interesting to hear Mr. Reid's definition of a non-voluntary taxation system.

By NetRunner

NetRunner (http://www.videosift.com/member/NetRunner) — Sat, 10 May 2008 01:39:32 -0700

I fail to see any sense in what the questioner was saying. Because there are penalties for not paying your taxes, it's forceful, and therefore somehow wrong?

With regard to Reid referring to our tax system being "voluntary", he's referring to voluntary enforcement -- we rely on citizens to fill out an income tax form, and voluntarily pay any outstanding taxes. A non-voluntary system would mean you have no opportunity to pay or not pay, ever. Things like Huckabee's "Fair tax" plan, where all tax becomes sales tax, would be a good example of a "non-voluntary" tax system. No forms, no opportunity to avoid paying it because it'd just be baked into the cost of everything you buy.

The obligation to pay taxes is not voluntary, and is an innate responsibility that comes with citizenship. Without taxes, there's no government for you to be a citizen of.

If you're not willing to sign on to that part of the social contract, you're free to renounce your citizenship, and go elsewhere.

All that would probably go over the head of this guy. He's just a right-wing hack using word games to try to make the Democratic Senate Majority Leader look silly.

By Kreegath

Kreegath (http://www.videosift.com/member/Kreegath) — Sat, 10 May 2008 05:44:53 -0700

I think it's simply a misunderstanding of the word voluntary, it certainly was for me. The interviewer looks at the word voluntary in a different way than what it means in this context, and living in a country where the tax system isn't voluntary I too made the same mistake. Thanks for clearing that up, it made Mr. Reid's viewpoint more understandable.
Another example of a word with slightly different meanings causing confusion among parts of the population is theory, which has one meaning in scientific terms and another in everyday use.

By dgandhi

dgandhi (http://www.videosift.com/member/dgandhi) — Sat, 10 May 2008 09:23:47 -0700

>> ^Kreegath:
Eating is a voluntary sustenance system.

This analogy sounds good, but it is fundamentally flawed, income and property are not REQUIRED for life.

The US government provides two fundamental economic services, property and currency. If you choose not to use these services you will not be required to pay for them, I did that for a number of years while living in the US and Canada, and not only did I survive, but I had a standard of living better then the majority of the population of the planet.

The librarian dogma that property is something other then a service works in the world of sound bites, but does not stand up the the briefest of scrutiny.

By Crosswords

Crosswords (http://www.videosift.com/member/Crosswords) — Sat, 10 May 2008 13:13:25 -0700

>> ^dgandhi:
>> ^Kreegath:
Eating is a voluntary sustenance system.

...I did that for a number of years while living in the US and Canada, and not only did I survive, but I had a standard of living better then the majority of the population of the planet...

A bartering squatter?

By dgandhi

dgandhi (http://www.videosift.com/member/dgandhi) — Sat, 10 May 2008 18:10:26 -0700

>> ^Crosswords:
A bartering squatter?

A scavenging squatter.

By Majortomyorke

Majortomyorke (http://www.videosift.com/member/Majortomyorke) — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:37:08 -0700

Doublethink The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them . . . . To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

By millertime1211

millertime1211 (http://www.videosift.com/member/millertime1211) — Mon, 12 May 2008 09:59:06 -0700

Maybe you'd never heard of the Boston Tea Party? Our revolution against britans forceful taxation of the americas?

TAXES
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines
(indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax
(FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax
(42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax Interest expense
(tax on the money)
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges
(tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties
(tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Taxes
(Truckers)
Sales Taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax
(SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and
local surcharge taxes
Telephone mi nimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines
(indirect taxation)
Trailer Registration Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

COMMENTS:
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

>> ^NetRunner:
I fail to see any sense in what the questioner was saying. Because there are penalties for not paying your taxes, it's forceful, and therefore somehow wrong?

With regard to Reid referring to our tax system being "voluntary", he's referring to voluntary enforcement -- we rely on citizens to fill out an income tax form, and voluntarily pay any outstanding taxes. A non-voluntary system would mean you have no opportunity to pay or not pay, ever. Things like Huckabee's "Fair tax" plan, where all tax becomes sales tax, would be a good example of a "non-voluntary" tax system. No forms, no opportunity to avoid paying it because it'd just be baked into the cost of everything you buy.

The obligation to pay taxes is not voluntary, and is an innate responsibility that comes with citizenship. Without taxes, there's no government for you to be a citizen of.

If you're not willing to sign on to that part of the social contract, you're free to renounce your citizenship, and go elsewhere.

All that would probably go over the head of this guy. He's just a right-wing hack using word games to try to make the Democratic Senate Majority Leader look silly.

By NetRunner

NetRunner (http://www.videosift.com/member/NetRunner) — Mon, 12 May 2008 10:57:36 -0700

^ Boston tea party wasn't an outright objection to tax, it was a rejection of having to pay taxes without any say in how the government receiving those taxes works.

I think the line was "No taxation without representation."

By all means, if you feel your government doesn't represent you, feel free to challenge it.

Taxes in and of themselves are legal, moral, and necessary. If you don't like how much there is, or what's taxed, feel free to vote for representatives that agree with you.

If you don't think your vote is being counted, and your values aren't being expressed by your representatives, well, that's an objection I'd back you up on.

That dork Harry Reid still hasn't defunded the Iraq war.

By bamdrew

bamdrew (http://www.videosift.com/member/bamdrew) — Mon, 12 May 2008 11:32:14 -0700

thats a funny interview.

'I reject your phraseology; we specifically call it "voluntary" because we're trying to bullshit you, and I reject you calling us out on that.'

By siftbot

siftbot (http://www.videosift.com/member/siftbot) — Tue, 13 May 2008 01:39:51 -0700

Tags for this video have been changed from 'senator harry reid, taxes, phraseology, voluntary, jail' to 'senator harry reid, taxes, phraseology, voluntary, jail, that tie you got in 1980' - edited by arsenault185

By arsenault185

arsenault185 (http://arsenault185.videosift.com) — Tue, 13 May 2008 01:44:11 -0700

That video is proof that our tax system is ALLLLLL fucked up. There shouldn't be a need for deductions. 10, 15%, FLAT RATE on everyone... no deductions, no incentives, no nothing. Just 10 15% on every one. if you make millions or just Burger King pay. That would make everything SOOOO much easier.

By Kreegath

Kreegath (http://www.videosift.com/member/Kreegath) — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:31:03 -0700

Personally, I'm all for having reasonable taxes, and by reasonable I mean high enough to pay for public healthcare, schools and infrastructure along with well equipped and trained law enforcement. Obviously this'll cost money, but to be honest that's something I've no problem with funding even though I don't own a car, don't go to school and am blessed with a strong immune system. There's still money left after the government has taken their cut, and it benefits everyone which in turn benefits me.
That's one of the reasons why I'll never become president, one of the campaign main points would be to raise taxes!