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John Bolton: We Must Bomb Iran Now - “The Taliban being aided by the Iranians is the dumbest shit faced lie ever pushed out by these talking heads. Post collapse of the USSR, the US interest in Afghanistan evaporated, the aid ceased and...” read more by Farhad2000
John Bolton: We Must Bomb Iran Now - “The Taliban being aided by the Iranians is the dumbest shit faced lie ever pushed out by these talking heads. Post collapse of the USSR, the US interest in Afghanistan evaporated, the aid ceased and...” read more by Farhad2000
gorillaman
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I am a human being and humanity is the shining pinnacle of the universe. My word is truth and my touch shakes the stars.
Member Since: 2006-09-20
Favorite Sift: Monkey Learns to Move Robotic Arm Using Only It's Brain
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Favorite Sift: Monkey Learns to Move Robotic Arm Using Only It's Brain
Favorite Tags: british, japan, animation, top gear, bill bailey, david mitchell, shatner
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In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
Do you know your avatar makes you look exactly like John Sessions?
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
Your avatar is glorious beyond words.
When there is a way to prove the intent of the man upon delivery, then we can talk about enforcing a man's wishes (including allowing the man to abdicate parental responsibility and rights) until then, in the interests of the child, we must have things be "unfair"
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
We're not adjudicating in the interests of the man; we're adjudicating in the interests of correct moral principle.
Whether a child is disadvantaged by the lack of a father is not the issue; there is no law or, more importantly, moral imperative against single parenting. Neither is the man the issue, he had nothing to do with the decision to have a child.
This needs to be elaborated upon. Having sex with or without birth control is not in itself a procreative act. There is always the option of abortion in the case of pregnancy, even in uncivilised (anti-abortion) or poor countries one could always 'leave the baby out for the wolves' or similar. Therefore, a conscious or unconscious decision not to abort, i.e. the deliberate decision to have a child, is an integral part of every birth. Unintuitively, simply conceiving does not make one a parent.
I agree with you when you say that a person who takes action leading to the birth of a child is responsible for that child. In the example we are discussing, only the mother has taken that action, only she has refused an abortion, therefore only she is responsible for the child. Consider that if both the mother and father agreed to abort, neither of them would be responsible for the support of a child that wouldn't exist. The father's actions are the same in both cases, consequently his responsibilities must be the same.
It is not acceptable to force the burden of a child on someone who hasn't chosen it. Far better to force an abortion on the woman if that were the only other option, but I'm suggesting it isn't. Where a person chooses to have a child without a partner that is their decision and their responsibility alone. If they can't afford to support that child as they would like, that is unfortunate. You can only legislate so far against bad decision-making.
In reply to this comment by smibbo:
because then you are adjudicating in the interest of the man and THE CHILD suffers. your suggestion puts it as if its "person who opposes abortion" versus "person who doesn't oppose abortion" or mother versus father etc but its not about them, its about the child.
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
I don't see why men who don't want children shouldn't say exactly that, smibbo. If birth control fails, have an abortion. If the woman refuses an abortion, the man should be able to make a legal declaration refusing parental rights and responsibilities to the child.
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
I don't see why men who don't want children shouldn't say exactly that, smibbo. If birth control fails, have an abortion. If the woman refuses an abortion, the man should be able to make a legal declaration refusing parental rights and responsibilities to the child.
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
No.
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
Dupe.
*discard
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
Thanks for the save firefly. Shame it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
You make it sound like you think killing all theists would be a good thing.
Tell you what, lets look at Albert Einstein. I believe he was human. Would you disagree?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#Religious_views
He may not have believed in a personal God, but he did believe there was a God.
Anyhow, I found some other links you may find interesting.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/human
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reason
You know, I looked it over and not one thing in all those definitions would lead me to believe that theists have a lesser amount of reason or are less of a human being.
Listen, I don't know what kind of person you are, but to consider a human being to be anything less than that simply because of his or her beliefs seems incredibly wrong to me.
When one group is no longer considered human, atrocities tend to happen.
On a lighter note, I tend to think that some theist beliefs aren't all that void of reason. Would you care to argue?
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
Nothing wrong with 'Final Solution kind of things' in principle, that one was just misconceived.
Theists aren't human; human minds are defined by their capacity for reason while the theist defines itself by faith, the antithesis of reason, and therefore cannot be considered human. Elementary.
In reply to this comment by SilentPoet:
I can understand that you do not like what those idiots over at Westboro do to there kids, but that last sentence in your comment is very troubling.
Do not start to see any group as less human.
Ever.
Bad things tend to happen afterwards.
"Final Solution" kind of things.
And just F.Y.I. not all theology teaches kids to murder.
Teaching a child religion of any sort is not just child abuse, it's murder. The theist lays its eggs in the mind of a beautiful human child, the eggs hatch into monster larvae, which eventually consume the mind and use the body to murder more children. Theists have nothing in common with human beings.
I can understand that you do not like what those idiots over at Westboro do to there kids, but that last sentence in your comment is very troubling.
Do not start to see any group as less human.
Ever.
Bad things tend to happen afterwards.
"Final Solution" kind of things.
And just F.Y.I. not all theology teaches kids to murder.
Q
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
OMG she's going anti-clockwise. Finally.
War, war never changes.
In reply to this comment by gorillaman:
I love you for saving Two Soups. Thanks.